unemployment and automated trade

[thexmassteam]

Hi all,

I'm playing my first serious Vic2 game and I try to understand How some game's mechanics work.
I noticed that 100% of my farmers in coffee RGO was unemployed despite my 50 daily needed coffee. I tried several things (for example edit savegame and put in work all those unemployed farmers or increase tariff to get my national coffee more attractiv than imported one ), but nothing work. Then I uncheck automate trade for coffee and set stockpile to 50 and .... miracle, my coffee's farmer get jobs ... at least until the stockpile reach the limits (1.03k in the table, I don't know why it's not 50 like I setted it).
So why my coffee farmers are used only to get national stockpile and not for my daily luxury needs? Why people buy expensive imported coffee instead of cheap national produced coffee? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[SknerusMck]

Maybe you are in sphere and they buy it from you sphere leader?
...I don't know if it is possible, but maybe .

 

[icedt729]

Protectionism doesn't work in this game because buying order is set by prestige or sphere relationships, not by comparative price. Basically your pops are already buying domestic products first and THEN going to the world market if their demands are still not met, so tariffs really just hurt your importing pops and factories.

I honestly have no idea why your stockpile is influencing employment like that, just think it's important to note that tariffs don't affect buying decisions the way you'd expect them to.

 

[thexmassteam]

Maybe you are in sphere and they buy it from you sphere leader?

No, I'm sphere leader. But I've sphered Brazil, who is the first world coffee producer. Maybe I can try release it to see what happens.

Protectionism doesn't work in this game because buying order is set by prestige or sphere relationships, not by comparative price. Basically your pops are already buying domestic products first and THEN going to the world market if their demands are still not met, so tariffs really just hurt your importing pops and factories.

I'm lost. I tag over UK and they got the same issue, 100% unemployment on coffee farmers. I've got the first prestige, I'm second world coffee producer (humm I could be second, without unemployment), I've sphered brazil, #1 producer. Does protectorate's products count as domestics products or sphered one?

It's not game breaking but It's one million unemployed that have nothing to buy the goods from my RGO and factories, and with 10 militancy.

it's important to note that tariffs don't affect buying decisions the way you'd expect them to.

Thank you for the info, interesting Need more test but UI is so messy and inconsistent ....

 

[thexmassteam]

Ok, so after few more tests I think I understand why my coffee farmer get employment if I manually set stockpile : if I set an amount that exceed world production capacity the only way to match the coffee needs is to ask for domestics production. But when the stockpile is full, my farmers slowly go unemployed.
So the only explanation I can figure out is that for any undetermined reason my coffee is the less desirable of the world, so everybody ask for world market coffee before mine. And other country also found my coffee bad, so they bought other's country coffee, despite my prestige.
As UK get same issue it's not SoI related

 

[-MoRiDin-]

Your pops and global demand isn't big enough to empoy all your farmers in the rgo.

I.e your pops may demand 50 coffee, but if they can't afford to buy it they wont, hence unemployment, when you stockpile you are buyign from your own rgo first, before world market. so there are a couple of factors.

One not everyone who demands coffee can afford to buy it, but if they do then they bu it form your RGO. If you RGO isn't producing enough they then buy from the world market but it seems more likely that your pops aren't rich enough to by the coffee they want, so your rgo trieds to sell on the world market and when that doesn't work puts people out of employment.

Your stockpile will buy from them first and so they will employ quickly to meet the new demand but you will also be driving up demand globally, which increases the price and makes it even harder for your pops to buy the coffee they need which would help keep your farmers employed permanently,

I have a tonne of unemployed farmers, I so want them to move to my home states and become crafts man (I have full citizenship set) but they wont, they sit there unemployed while there is space all over my empire in profitable rgos and factories... They remain farmers rather than even becoming very well paid soldiers too... sigh..

 

[AmpsterMan]

I wonder if rhere is something more sinister at work. Hear me out

We know order of consumption goes by rank/prestige (have heard conflicting points on both) but what order does supply go in? If there are 100 coffee demand, 120 supply, and 80 purchased, who got to sell the 80 coffee? Is there some math at work or something else?

Honestly, at this point i wouldn't be surprised if sell order is determined by alphanumeric order. You said BRAzil is in your sphere causing issues, yet BRItain is having similar problems. Try chanin Brazil's name, tag, whatever in the save and see if it changes anything

 

[-MoRiDin-]

Supply is supposed to be given out evenly, by proportion of the supply you provided, so if you put in 80% of the coffee on the world market you get 80% of eh sales..

 

[thexmassteam]

Your pops and global demand isn't big enough to empoy all your farmers in the rgo.

I'm agree with you, but I've 100% unemployment, and the people who can afford luxuries bought 61 coffee on world market, so with my 160 prod. capacity I should have only around 70% unemployment, not 100%.

You said BRAzil is in your sphere causing issues, yet BRItain is having similar problems. Try chanin Brazil's name, tag, whatever in the save and see if it changes anything

Humm, good idea, I will try that. But PORtugal, who is in BRItain SoI sell 50 coffee and BRItain 0, so I don't think it's that, but I think you look in the right direction : "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

 

[AmpsterMan]

I'm agree with you, but I've 100% unemployment, and the people who can afford luxuries bought 61 coffee on world market, so with my 160 prod. capacity I should have only around 70% unemployment, not 100%.


Humm, good idea, I will try that. But PORtugal, who is in BRItain SoI sell 50 coffee and BRItain 0, so I don't think it's that, but I think you look in the right direction : "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Along that thought, let's go somewhere else. How are your minimum wage laws? Could it be that price isn't high enough to allow coffee RGOs to employ farmers? By increasing world wide denand by 50, that could have raised prices enough RGO employment possible. Try lowering minimum wage to see what happens.

 

[thexmassteam]

Along that thought, let's go somewhere else. How are your minimum wage laws? Could it be that price isn't high enough to allow coffee RGOs to employ farmers? By increasing world wide denand by 50, that could have raised prices enough RGO employment possible. Try lowering minimum wage to see what happens.

In 10 years price are slowly grow by 10% (from 1.8 to 2). In fact I need increase the demand far more than 50, I set stockpile to 2k to be sure. (but I think 1k should be ok, the first time I set 50 I got 1.03k). But coffee prices don't go up nor down when I change the stockpile (or change < 0.0X so I don't see it in tables). Catle 2.0, fruits 1.8 and grain 2.1 have very low unemployment
The first time I noticed the issue, minimum wage law was level 3/5, now it's 5/5.

 

[AmpsterMan]

Would You mind uploading your save? I am interested in being a bit morein depth without having to ask everything.

 

[thexmassteam]

Would You mind uploading your save? I am interested in being a bit morein depth without having to ask everything.

No sorry, I need to practice my english ....

the save (rar) :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vcgUqOBXktYUp4RFJqWVJzWHc/view?usp=sharing

 

[thexmassteam]

I stopped this game, it's 1930, no more research to do and global economy give sign the collapse will begin soon. So it's no more interesting for me to carry on. But i'm always interested to learn stuff so if anyone have answers about the op question, I'll be very happy to carry on the thread

thanks all for your answers, have fun!