Undrainable manpower... how is that possible?

[Maerd]

I'm in a war against Austria. I attacked them because they had 0 manpower left and only 26k troops. However, no matter how many troops I wipe they're still about 20k troops and 0 manpower and keep pouring in... So, are all their troops mercs? But it cannot be. Their income is twice smaller than mine, according to the ledger, and I cannot field 26k mercs including cannons and cavs without being extremely negative on balance sheet. At one point I thought I wiped them all but in about half a year another stack of 22k fresh troops appeared... WTF? I already drained 130k manpower myself and I cannot recover my manpower or hire mercs almost lightning fast. Does the AI cheat with infinite gold to hire mercs? Length of war is also substantial to bankrupt anyone who take too many loans.

 

[grommile]

AI Austria pays a lot less interest on loans than other countries do, because it gets -1% interest for being Lucky, and -1% interest for being Austria.

 

[Frossa]

I've noticed this to an extent too. The AI is using a lot of Mercenaries, which is good for historical accuracy. But how in the hell do they manage to maintain all of them? I've seen Burgundy have a standing army of 27 Mercenaries in 1510, and coupled with their regular regiments, they were way above their Force Limit. They never seemed to run out of money though.

 

[KrupPato]

So, are all their troops mercs?

Look at the ledger, it show how many mercs they have.

 

[Aries666]

What is Austrias max manpower and income? For every 100k manpower they regenerate a base of 10k a year. For every 5 gold per month they can maintain 10 merc inf, also the higher their income the larger the loans they can take. Rather than wasting your manpower trying to wipe them siege out their high base tax, trade power provinces so Tirol, Wein and Antwerp.

 

[slavoslav]

The AI is very loan-happy in 1.8 and will frequently go balls deep into debt to hire more mercs, especially in unwinnable wars. I've seen countries with several thousand gold in debt in the early-mid game. The AI needs to learn when taking loans might actually turn a war around; the current behavior just hurts the AI and annoys the player.

 

[Maerd]

Look at the ledger, it show how many mercs they have.

37 merc units by the end of war and their income is 48 ducats per month. Max Manpower 60k.

 

[Maerd]

For every 5 gold per month they can maintain 10 merc inf

They also have a lot of cannons and cavs, it's not just infantry. Cannon mercs are very expensive.

 

[nicechinos]

They also have a lot of cannons and cavs, it's not just infantry. Cannon mercs are very expensive.

Occupy Tirol, start making money and put a serious hole in Austria's balance sheet.

 

[Thrake]

Are you playing with AI bonuses? It makes units really cheap for AI. In similar situations, I usually only leave one or two small stacks to besiege while main force hunts down small stacks. Even then it can severely drain your manpower stackwhiping even 5k every couple of months with attrition. Once the AI is down, don't let it build up again or it might be a never ending mess.

 

[Haccoude]

They also have a lot of cannons and cavs, it's not just infantry. Cannon mercs are very expensive.

Cannons cost three times as much as infantry, cavalry costs 2.5 times as much as infantry. Using 10 infantry mercs for 5 ducats per month as a base, we end up with 48 ducats per month being enough for an army of:
10 artillery (15 dpm), 10 cavalry (12.5 dpm) and 40 infantry (20 dpm) with 0.5 ducats per month to spare.

Now, IIRC mercs do get more expensive the more you have, but since you report an army size of 37 mercs while our math gives a size of 50, and since they probably don't have 10 cavalry, it still looks plausible.

 

[Aries666]

They also have a lot of cannons and cavs, it's not just infantry. Cannon mercs are very expensive.

Still 37k mercs can easily be sustained on 48 ducats a month. The key with any large enemy is to seige them out and reduce their income/manpower. The only time I attack against majors is if I see a leaderless or heavily outnumbered stack, otherwise I occupy their territory. Every province they lose drops their income whilst increasing yours.

 

[anomalacaris]

Austria is one of the easier AI country to attack, since they are all mountains and once you park your siege troops there they won't get removed.
Just try to win a siege war, reinforce when Austrian stack try to engage so they back down, repeat until you got most provinces. AI don't get carpet sieging, and will never be able to compete.
Like in real world, war doesn't have to be won with combat.

 

[Maerd]

Well, that's not so simple. Since I play Ottomans and lagging in mil tech by 2 I have to bring 3x or even 4x troops to beat them without huge losses. Also it seems like they put all their pips on attack because if they attack they win 1 to 3 and if I attack then I win, they also sport a 6/5/5/2 general and some morale bonuses from defensive ideas and from adviser, which makes it very hard to win anything (my best general is 4/3/2/1). And I cannot keep 70k stacks sitting in the provinces besieging because attrition is decimating them, and then they attack. So pretty much I got stuck and had to loose to them.

 

[anomalacaris]

Well, that's not so simple. Since I play Ottomans and lagging in mil tech by 2 I have to bring 3x or even 4x troops to beat them without huge losses. Also it seems like they put all their pips on attack because if they attack they win 1 to 3 and if I attack then I win, they also sport a 6/5/5/2 general and some morale bonuses from defensive ideas and from adviser, which makes it very hard to win anything (my best general is 4/3/2/1). And I cannot keep 70k stacks sitting in the provinces besieging because attrition is decimating them, and then they attack. So pretty much I got stuck and had to loose to them.

You have to improve your EU4 warfare...
1. Attack and defense pips work in both offense and defense. For siege style warfare you prefer defense pips, for annihilation->carpet siege you prefer attack pips.
2. Usually a good rule to never fall behind in military tech for ideas (even less for anything else). In current version you can keep up as Indian, easy with ottomans
3. You don't usually go around in 70k stacks. Do 20k stacks (usually it's combat width *2). If Austrian stack move, reinforce with your other 20k stacks so they back down. Carpet siege with like 3k. Even if you attack, you only need to bring combat width worth of troops if you can reinforce quickly enough. It's micromanagement heavy yes.
4. If you absolutely want combat, defend in mountains and bait him to attack first. His 6/5 suddenly look like 4/3. If you have enough troops, rotate in 20k stacks and then retreat out when one get low morale etc.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Well, that's not so simple. Since I play Ottomans and lagging in mil tech by 2 I have to bring 3x or even 4x troops to beat them without huge losses. Also it seems like they put all their pips on attack because if they attack they win 1 to 3 and if I attack then I win, they also sport a 6/5/5/2 general and some morale bonuses from defensive ideas and from adviser, which makes it very hard to win anything (my best general is 4/3/2/1). And I cannot keep 70k stacks sitting in the provinces besieging because attrition is decimating them, and then they attack. So pretty much I got stuck and had to loose to them.

How did you managed to lag behind in mil tech as Ottomans, and by 2 technologies may I ask? O_O

 

[Poh]

What year? as ottomans you should be able to field a lot of mercs. This is also relevant regarding to tech since a 2 tech difference can matter a lot at one point in the game and nearly nothing at other points. Mil tactic and morale, new units are ofcourse really important. That 6/5/5/2 general might be the bigget problem.
Regarding that you cant field many mercs. What do you use your income on? advisors, maybe star 2?

Use mercs, as many as possible. I prefer to only use mercs for infantry. Your Cav and Artillery numbers are far lower than Infantry (so your losses are also only a fraction) and their base cost is mostly a lot higher than Infantry.
Destroy the army then carpet siege with only the needed number of soldiers. If thats not possible you can either siege a couple of provinces and gather your army when attacked or you can siege the border provinces with small numbers having your doom stack behind.
Dont attack them in mountains

 

[Aries666]

Well, that's not so simple. Since I play Ottomans and lagging in mil tech by 2 I have to bring 3x or even 4x troops to beat them without huge losses. Also it seems like they put all their pips on attack because if they attack they win 1 to 3 and if I attack then I win, they also sport a 6/5/5/2 general and some morale bonuses from defensive ideas and from adviser, which makes it very hard to win anything (my best general is 4/3/2/1). And I cannot keep 70k stacks sitting in the provinces besieging because attrition is decimating them, and then they attack. So pretty much I got stuck and had to loose to them.

For good seige warfare and it works very well against Austria, split your army in 3-4 and move straight to Tirol, Trent, Lienz and Kartenen. Allow Austria to attack and reinforce. If you can afford it put a leader on all stacks, if not a leader should be no more than one province from a leaderless stack. As provinces fall relocate to other mountain provinces such as Krain and Salzburg, try and make sure each stack can be reinforced by at least 2 neigbouring stacks. As Austrian provinces fall they lose money and manpower making it harder for them to maintain and recruit new units. You can more or less deafeat them without even fighting a battle if they rufuse to engage. However, if you are behind on mil tech any advatage you had from fighting defensive in mountains will be lost and it becomes a case of who has the deeper manpower pool.

 

[Illianor123]

If you are beating their stacks, drop some sieges and follow their army army around until you are sieging every province. Then they can't recruit any new units.

 

[tyler45455]

I'm playing as Spain currently and i have 40k mercs and 40k regiments still making 25 goold a month its only around 1535 I'll post pics when i get home later