Understanding Research Points

[egross]

Okay, I'm breaking down and exposing my ignorance, because this is just annoying the @$#(*&! out of me.

How do research points actually work? How do you acrue them? What happens to them, as in, how are they used? At almost all points in the game (playing as USA, nowm, in 1.02) , my little "lightbulb" indicator shows "0". Text box tells me I'm acumulating points, but they never show up. Is this because they are being used as fast as they are generated? If this is the normal case, why have an indicator for them at all?

When I get events that give me research points, sometimes they show up by the lightbulb, and then disapear just as quickly.

So, what generates them and how? How are they used? How can you get more, besides the obvious of increasing literacy and through events?

They're not explained very well (read: at all) in the (cough, ahem) "manual."

Any enlightened researchers out there?

 

[Artem]

Okay, I'm breaking down and exposing my ignorance, because this is just annoying the @$#(*&! out of me.

How do research points actually work? How do you acrue them? What happens to them, as in, how are they used? At almost all points in the game (playing as USA, nowm, in 1.02) , my little "lightbulb" indicator shows "0". Text box tells me I'm acumulating points, but they never show up. Is this because they are being used as fast as they are generated? If this is the normal case, why have an indicator for them at all?

When I get events that give me research points, sometimes they show up by the lightbulb, and then disapear just as quickly.

So, what generates them and how? How are they used? How can you get more, besides the obvious of increasing literacy and through events?

They're not explained very well (read: at all) in the (cough, ahem) "manual."

Any enlightened researchers out there?

The only way you can influence the amount of RPs generated is through education. Spend as much as you can on education and you will get max possible RPs, with time your literacy will be rising and so RPs generated.

No matter how much you spend on education you need at least one year per tech. If you have high literacy rating the time will be one year and you will be collecting RPs. If you have more than 10 RP you can try to buy tech from another country. Because if you have less than 10 you will spend time generating them as if you were reseaching it yourself.

 

[Gwalcmai]

The amount of RP generated apparently depends on the proportion of "researcher POPs" in your population. Those are, AFAIK, clerks and clerics. (There's an invention, Darwinism, I think, that stops RP from clerics and doubles the output from clerks) So, the more of those POPs you have in your population, the more RP you get for a given education spending.

 

[unmerged(24565)]

egross, don't worry too much about the number beside the lightbulb. What matters is the speed of your research. Your research may be going faster than any other country, without building up a surplus of research points. Focus more on how literate your country is.

 

[Zan Thrax]

Since each tech requires 10 research points, you'll always be at 0 points (unless you quit researching for awhile - but don't do that) until you are producing more than 10 per year. (That's more than .833 per month).

Once you get to that point, wait until you get to 10 points and start looking for someone to trade with. The ten points you've saved will pay for the tech you get from the other country, without stalling your current research.

 

[unmerged(3115)]

Bad system. Im sick of accumulating dozens of points i cannot spend. particualry bad reserch system IMHO.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

I like the system. It prevents tech-rushes quite efficiently and is still quite complex with lots of room for variation.

egross, to get a better picture of how your research is progressing, you should take a look at the research screen.

If you are accumulating dozens of points you can't spend, Belrick, you should consider going tech-shopping.

Rafiki

 

[Chrisu]

I on one hand think it´s and ingenious system, I´ve loved it from the start. I don´t understand how people are having such a hard time to understand how it works. The system is absolutely great and I hope Paradox will also use it in future games.

 

[Belissarius]

I like the system. It prevents tech-rushes quite efficiently and is still quite complex with lots of room for variation.

egross, to get a better picture of how your research is progressing, you should take a look at the research screen.

If you are accumulating dozens of points you can't spend, Belrick, you should consider going tech-shopping.

Rafiki

I like how techs are seperated from inventions and how inventions work. HOWEVER teh whole idea of making techs traded cost 10 points each was to prevent an exploit in MP. Ie I trade you for all my techs and you trade me yours. So it was designed to prevent MP tech sky rocketing. However the costing of 10 research point per trade is an utter failure for stopping the exploit. I can simply give you up to 5 techs for free per diplomat and then you can give me up to 5 techs for free per diplomat in return. So the one feature to eliminate MP tech exploiting has failed and it now is a solely a single player penalty.

Tech trades shouldnt incure a 10 point research point penalty there is no logical reason for it. The rapid advancement of tech has little advantage as well as inventions are really the key. So advances are not the same like they are in other tech advancing games. So trading techs doesnt have the same advantage compared to previous games.

 

[Darkrenown]

The only way you can influence the amount of RPs generated is through education.

No, you can also increase the percentage of clerks/priests/capitalists/aristocrats in your population.

 

[Exterous]

i think its a good system as well, although i do wish it was easier to share techs

 

[unmerged(23948)]

It is

Its easy to share techs (on mp) anyways.. just send, hopefully you'll receive some aswell.

 

[unmerged(24903)]

I do believe this is a good tech system, and as mentioned, it does nicely prevent tech rushes. However, it is complex and baffling to the newcomer (at least it was to me). IMO, it's one of the many areas of this game that badly need documentation.

 

[Spruce]

consider the rp system to be an bench mark between all the nations

it's not because you have 4 times the population that you'll get 4 times the reseach points of smaller countries,

the idea is that every country has it's professors and geniuses, they only have to be spotted and must be able to evolve and put their ideas into practice,

education spending, literacy, % of clergy, clerks and capitalists determines how well your system is,

So a small Belgium may generate more rp points then a super big Austria. This can happen f.e. if the Belgians have more literarcy or more capitalists,

but generally speaking, budget restrictions on education are lethal for rp,

 

[unmerged(16875)]

Just want to reinforce the desirability of trading for techs if you have a RP surplus.

 

[Fawr]

RPs explained

When you generate RPs they will first go towards removing a -ve RP total (Normally aquired due to traiding tech or some events).

If your RP total isn't -ve then the RPs will try to go into the tech you are currently researching. More about this later.

If the tech you are researching is full (or you aren't researching a tech) then the excess RPs will go into your stockpile. If you are earning more than 10 RP/year then the excess will go into your stockpile due to this rule.

The RPs that you have put into a technology is shown on the main research screen. It is shown a ratio like 7.1/10. Under this ratio is a white/grey bar. The white part shows how close to completion the technology is. The amount of RPs that you have invested gives you a cap on the progress of the white bar. This cap is the proportion of the cost that has been paid already. So if you have paid 2.2/10 then the white bar cannot go above 22% full. The white bar will fill up at the rate of 1/365 per day, unless the cap is reached. The estimated time of completion ignores the cap, and will increase when the progress of the white bar is impeded by the cap (ie. you haven't invested enough RP's yet).

I'm not sure what the 9/10 rule is, or how a 9 cost technology differs from a 10 cost technology (described above).

 

[EnderV]

When you generate RPs they will first go towards removing a -ve RP total (Normally aquired due to traiding tech or some events).
[snip]
I'm not sure what the 9/10 rule is, or how a 9 cost technology differs from a 10 cost technology (described above).

Actually, the whole thing is a bit more complicated.
The first RP earned (every month) goes against your RP "debt", usually incured by tech trading.
The second RP earned (or the first RP earned, if you have no RP debt) goes to your current research.
Aything over that goes to your RP pool.
Given the most countries earn less than one RP for most of the game and between 1-2 for the rest, these things rarely show up. And when they do, you've most likely researched/traded for everything so..
If you start a new research, all RPs from the pool, up to the tech costs are used.

What is a 9 RP tech and what is a 10 RP tech depends on your establishment. Say military has 9RP for army and navy, idustrial for commerce and industry etc..

I actually don't like tech sharing much. In a way it's realistic to allow it, but it's just means that around 1900 you have most of the techs, and deciding where to go on the tree is made much easier. If you could realisticly get only say 2/3 of all the techs during the game, I think it would make the game much more replayable and iteresting (not that it isn't now, but why should I play the same country more than a couple of times now?)
I think solution to that might be if the tech trading would cost (a reasonable amount like 100 or so ) prestige as well. After all, you're admiting as in admiting you're inferior to someone else who has already got the tech .

Regards,
Vlad

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Actually, the whole thing is a bit more complicated.
The first RP earned (every month) goes against your RP "debt", usually incured by tech trading.
The second RP earned (or the first RP earned, if you have no RP debt) goes to your current research.
Aything over that goes to your RP pool.

Are you sure about this? My impression is that if your RP total is negative, all generated Rp is allocated to reducing the RP debt. If your current lacks RP, it is put on hold till your RP total is >= 0, but if it has all the RP it needs, it continues normally.

What is a 9 RP tech and what is a 10 RP tech depends on your establishment. Say military has 9RP for army and navy, idustrial for commerce and industry etc..

Again, are you dure about this? I thought 9/10 RP cost depended on what your current national value is.

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(2833)]

I like how techs are seperated from inventions and how inventions work. HOWEVER teh whole idea of making techs traded cost 10 points each was to prevent an exploit in MP. Ie I trade you for all my techs and you trade me yours. So it was designed to prevent MP tech sky rocketing. However the costing of 10 research point per trade is an utter failure for stopping the exploit. I can simply give you up to 5 techs for free per diplomat and then you can give me up to 5 techs for free per diplomat in return. So the one feature to eliminate MP tech exploiting has failed and it now is a solely a single player penalty.

Tech trades shouldnt incure a 10 point research point penalty there is no logical reason for it. The rapid advancement of tech has little advantage as well as inventions are really the key. So advances are not the same like they are in other tech advancing games. So trading techs doesnt have the same advantage compared to previous games.

I though it was the opposite-giving techs away is free (no rp cost) to stop giving naval organization techs to China to put it at -50 rp for no real gain.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Tech-trade costs RP for techs received by the nation initiating the trade.

To give examples (supposing deals initiated by me):

• I give you tech, no-one pays RP.
• You give me tech, I pay RP.
• We exchange techs, I pay RP for the ones I receive, you don't pay anything.

It's possible to exploit in MP (as Belissarius says), so it needs to be house-ruled.

As DarthMaur says, it's not possible to "bombard" an AI nation with "worthless" techs with techs to block its' research in more "sensible" fields.

The techs are the basis for inventions, so if inventions are the key, then techs are the key to the key Also, quite a few techs give advantages in themselves, even if you might not get their inventions for some time.

Rafiki