Underrated doctrines: Grand Battleplan L/L

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marcelo r. r.

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Mar 26, 2019
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I once created a topic about Mass Assault L/R ( Mass Mobilization branch ), i was farming a achievment, so i wanted a doctrine to fit better a single general doing everything with a very large division template, was a success, once i pile up related traits and tatics( Mass Charge ), the full infantry template was unstoppable, in any situation or hellish front, you can ignore supply penalties, and atack.

That time i have a run with Grand Battleplan L/L Branch, the focus is stack Planning.

The context im running is a Single Player entering late in war(1945) to help Allies against Germany, with Axis having the upper hand(very close to win over the URSS).

At first seems very very crappy, even stacking 3:1(atack outnumbering enemy) was hopeless against 1946 Germany pack of 11+ divisions full ORG/full Equiped in mountains, unlike mass assault, my atacks aren't weren't lasting long, my recover rate wasn't also better than germany, so they keep just reinforcing and laughing of my face. Even worse, wasn't good at defense too, even larger templates(14 INF 4 ART) was having dificult to hold the Germans.

Then i realized i was trying playing like mass assault with another doctrine, i have no choice but trying a encirclement.

The thing worked, i see that all that planning bonus work as way to overcame all that negative bonus (no supplies, terrain, etc), when encircle enemy troops, the 60+ germans divisions become traped.

The main problem of Grand Battleplan, is that is the most reliant on General attributes.... 50% of planning ins't much alone, but when u start pile up with the General stats its become crazy 80%, 90%+...

Its like a "Blitzkrieg" doctrine for poor man, u can afford manage very large encirclements using just infantry, in poor supplied areas.

If u manage to stack positive effects like air superiority, the raw 90%+ bonus become a overkill.

The tipical "small" 9/1 Infantry have ~200 atack in a non-optimal template, with all that bonus its jump to 500+.

Of course i don't know if its good for MP, because u have to "wait" planning build up, it is more suitable for those who like to roleplay very large scale operations without worry about terrain or supplies.

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it's strong but will be a lot more fun to play with if the battleplanner is ever put into a reasonably good state, rather than the meme it is right now where units shuffle for multiple weeks, attack outside of orders, attack w/o orders at all, and your planning bonus gets penalized down faster if you dare try to control them yourself (which is still the better option, get what planning you can and then move your units with sanity).
 
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gb right also has a niche. i think it outperforms left path on defense outright due to the massive night attack bonus, so it's the pick if you want to grind down using entrenchment. however, it's also still fine offensively for that reason, unless you have so much soft attack that you can push stuff off the line within a single day.

if you care about supply consumption beyond trait farming for it, it helps with that too. it is also competitive with sf right right for stuff like cav memes since you get a lot of army buffs.
 
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gb right also has a niche. i think it outperforms left path on defense outright due to the massive night attack bonus, so it's the pick if you want to grind down using entrenchment. however, it's also still fine offensively for that reason, unless you have so much soft attack that you can push stuff off the line within a single day.

if you care about supply consumption beyond trait farming for it, it helps with that too. it is also competitive with sf right right for stuff like cav memes since you get a lot of army buffs.
I played right path once, the mission was take out britsh empire utilizing my colonies as launchpad.

Its worked so smooth, that i even get extra time to help japan finishing China through "supply hell" area from Yunnan.

I played a sort of "king of hellish terrain" stacking supply bonuses + flamethrower tanks(best average terrain modifiers aside eng. company) + light arm recon company(best terrain moviment bonuses)
 
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That time i have a run with Grand Battleplan L/L Branch, the focus is stack Planning.

Good idea but you forget the archenemy from grand battleplan - espionage. You can get all bonus from hoi iv at the end you get no benefits when the last multiplicator is Zero! Grand Battleplan sounds good at the paper and i have not forget as the coumuity ask the developer you have update mobile warfare and firepower. Why not grand battle plan? The answer was they have enough bonus for battleplan. But they have forget the spys. I dont know was it a bug or a feature and when the first have they fix it? From my Poland test run and Manchukuo fun games before Barbarossa i have learned that battleplan have two problems.

First: The AI will don't attack when the battleplan not running. Most time battleplan run from the AI run endless. Self in peace time. But sometimes which new fronts he start later. That bring us to

Second: With spys you can downgrade the battleplan to zero. So they AI will never start a attack. Or for the player they need the bonus for attack run with power to the wall and bounce off. Is how a musclecar with avitation fuel and some steal the vehical key = left picture or to stall the engine = picture right.
Left side no blue bar. Right side full blue bar but we have 0 battleplanbonus to. And i have enough bonuspower for battleplan.

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Good idea but you forget the archenemy from grand battleplan - espionage. You can get all bonus from hoi iv at the end you get no benefits when the last multiplicator is Zero! Grand Battleplan sounds good at the paper and i have not forget as the coumuity ask the developer you have update mobile warfare and firepower. Why not grand battle plan? The answer was they have enough bonus for battleplan. But they have forget the spys. I dont know was it a bug or a feature and when the first have they fix it? From my Poland test run and Manchukuo fun games before Barbarossa i have learned that battleplan have two problems.

First: The AI will don't attack when the battleplan not running. Most time battleplan run from the AI run endless. Self in peace time. But sometimes which new fronts he start later. That bring us to

Second: With spys you can downgrade the battleplan to zero. So they AI will never start a attack. Or for the player they need the bonus for attack run with power to the wall and bounce off. Is how a musclecar with avitation fuel and some steal the vehical key = left picture or to stall the engine = picture right.
Left side no blue bar. Right side full blue bar but we have 0 battleplanbonus to. And i have enough bonuspower for battleplan.

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Good remind.

I think theres some modifier because i never get that in so many divisions - even playing as Germany(spy targeted by everyone), normally i get hit in 5 or 6 divisions max, when invade poland for example.

i guess the targeted is the based on intel netcoverage(the lines) or the counter-intel of target.
 
Good remind.

I think theres some modifier because i never get that in so many divisions - even playing as Germany(spy targeted by everyone), normally i get hit in 5 or 6 divisions max, when invade poland for example.

i guess the targeted is the based on intel netcoverage(the lines) or the counter-intel of target.
Every division in the area covered by the intel network gets its planning reduced.
 
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How to get enemy 0% battleplan bonus? I get only partially. Now AI will have a very hard time with me! :D
It scales with the strength of your intel network, the stronger your network is the more enemy planning gets reduced. Just make sure that your intel network covers the front line.

As a bonus, spies also reduce entrenchment so you can use them offensively too. They pretty much just hard counter GBP doctrine.
 
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GBP is great for its defense, it gives tons of attack when defending and is the only doctrines that combines well with static warfare spirit proucing mass amounts of damage, specialy at night.

and for attack if you combine the +5 bonus for all with the +25 night, you get a good average that is not fa behind the fire supression.
 
Night bonus is just for reduce night penalty _50%. Most of your damage will be in daylight and when you have the +25% bonus from tactics or Cas support. In defend vs tank, if we don't get reinforcement then we can fail. So not too much excited from night bonus.
 
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Night bonus is just for reduce night penalty _50%. Most of your damage will be in daylight and when you have the +25% bonus from tactics or Cas support. In defend vs tank, if we don't get reinforcement then we can fail. So not too much excited from night bonus.
True, but keep in mind that the other side also has the -50% night attack penalty. Meaning that during the night time, your divisions will still have a 25% firepower buff that the other side doesn't have.

Is it enough to push them over the top? Still probably not. A 25% advantage 50% of the time averages out to about a 12% advantage, which isn't really that great compared to superior firepower and mobile warfare. GBP is good when you can plan and be entrenched, but being able to have good stats and also have tactical flexibility is what makes other doctrines better most of the time.
 
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True, but keep in mind that the other side also has the -50% night attack penalty. Meaning that during the night time, your divisions will still have a 25% firepower buff that the other side doesn't have.

Is it enough to push them over the top? Still probably not. A 25% advantage 50% of the time averages out to about a 12% advantage, which isn't really that great compared to superior firepower and mobile warfare. GBP is good when you can plan and be entrenched, but being able to have good stats and also have tactical flexibility is what makes other doctrines better most of the time.
isn't the night penalty multiplicative, like other positive/negative modifiers in combat? 71cloak tested it and gb right had the 2nd highest "average" damage stats (day and night) assuming normal areas and not arctic combat where day/night get screwy, marginally beating out gb left at max planning and narrowly losing to sf right right. thus unless you anticipate fighting only during the day and/or resolving battles so quickly that night penalty isn't a factor, it's actually one of the strongest single doctrine bonuses you get.
 
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How to get enemy 0% battleplan bonus? I get only partially. Now AI will have a very hard time with me! :D

Be carefull what you wish. Sometimes the ai use it to. In the image Russia has counter my polish flying hussar out. That why i have explore it. I have wonder why i have no win the fight whereby i have all the battleplanbonus. And as i watch there was no battleplanbar.


it scales with the strength of your intel network, the stronger your network is the more enemy planning gets reduced. Just make sure that your intel network covers the front line.

But that can be problematic. Every one memory MAD Spy vs. Spy?! Its the same here. Exept that the defender is in the advantage. Most time player use not defense. They make operations. Can be a failure or not?! The defense is a good option for minor countrys with small industry with big neighbours. Example Manchukuo has only one military factory or Finland vs Russia. The defender can make the aggressor the life heavy. At firsr the other side must have the same or more spy to bring the network above 50%. That a problem for operations. They defense make it expensive to. Not in factorys or in equipment how in the discription but in days. There can be 90 days fast end in 200+. The defender need only his capitol and no time to counter. The aggressor has the problem that his spys can be capture or die. He need more spys and time to bring the network at the high for operations. But this compensate not the malus of the running time for the operations. When he will reduce the battleplanbonus in the front section he must found a federal state in the enemy country in range. But he has the chance to switch push fast a other frontsection with rail of a neighbour federal state. For example france is a good country for switch front section and play with rail. Its federal state the correct phrase? More tables to counterintelligence next days in Making Intel Agency more fun. Looking that can be, that in the first image i mixed up defense with aggressor.

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True, but keep in mind that the other side also has the -50% night attack penalty. Meaning that during the night time, your divisions will still have a 25% firepower buff that the other side doesn't have.

I just want to remind everyone (and I know you know this, but others might not) that between GBP right and the night vision techs, you can completely eliminate the night fighting penalty.

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The base soft attack of these divisions are almost the same. But, umm, the British are spanking them. The planning bonus is a big part of it, but that -50% penalty the Italians have compared to no penalty at night that the British have means that half of the time, the Italians are fighting at a huge disadvantage. Is it worth it to do this? I dunno. SF or MW are probably still better in many situations. But I wouldn't mock GBP for its removal of the night penalty.

Also, the AI didn't put engineers into its Italian formations, so the Italians didn't dig in that much even though they are using GBP themselves and could benefit from doing so. I can't fix that.
 
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I just want to remind everyone (and I know you know this, but others might not) that between GBP right and the night vision techs, you can completely eliminate the night fighting penalty.

View attachment 962019

View attachment 962020

The base soft attack of these divisions are almost the same. But, umm, the British are spanking them. The planning bonus is a big part of it, but that -50% penalty the Italians have compared to no penalty at night that the British have means that half of the time, the Italians are fighting at a huge disadvantage. Is it worth it to do this? I dunno. SF or MW are probably still better in many situations. But I wouldn't mock GBP for its removal of the night penalty.

Also, the AI didn't put engineers into its Italian formations, so the Italians didn't dig in that much even though they are using GBP themselves and could benefit from doing so. I can't fix that.
Honestly, considering that the second night vision tech is a 1946 tech, it hardly comes up in a normal game from my experience. I rarely even get to the first one, though that's my own fault as I tend to tech rush things like planes and industry and leave my infantry to get scrap metal for weapons while the tanks do everything.
 
Honestly, considering that the second night vision tech is a 1946 tech, it hardly comes up in a normal game from my experience.

I've pushed those techs ahead of time as Italy when going all in on a GBP/special forces kind of thing.

I'll save everyone the trouble and post it myself:

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i've never really explored the "spy on them and catch their spies" part of the game. i've just been spamming for tech boost or collab, mostly collab. i would imagine it's not so easy to fully strip the bonuses from gb if the player attempts to defend against network buildup on the relevant front(s) actively, possibly stripping planning bonus too.

it also seems like you can't always place a spy near the front?
 
it also seems like you can't always place a spy near the front?

It's correct. A country is divided in federal stats but this must not match with the spy sectors. You know this from the air zone. With luck there is a spy sector at your front. When not you must bring more spys to expand your network. Same when the front move. When you own the porvince of the sector where thy spy has her base then your lost your network. You can rectify when you play with trail. When you know that you loose the spyvbase put a other spy in the next sector. The sector with the high network push the sector with the low network.

For example. I mean that Norway or Finland has only one spybase. Can be a problem, when the front is at the other side. For Norway there are two spys enough. The picture with norway 2 spys have i not post but when you wish i can post it too. Finland need 3. But the third must not work at network. Can make some mapmissions.

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When you have more as one spy bases in a country watch where you place and how many! When you have time look to france. The have a lot spybases. Sometime network goes from port to port. What sounds intresting. Then water cut the networkpower. But i think works more with ocean. Networkpower is not the same how networkstrengh or high. Call it how you will. The one mean the 100%. The other the cover. But this is not realy correct too. You can have 100% power and cover but has a efficience of mapmission from 50%. Denmark gives only 50%. Island cut the other 50%. You can send spys to island and make a second network but that will not be added together. Dont know what this mean for battleplan. As i have test this i have not look for this.

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