Unaswered questions

[Baranov]

Hi,

Reading from many AAR and my own experience, I still have some questions about this great game

1)I have a hard time managing my budget and my taxes, especially when a count.

a.For example, when I try to squeeze as much money from peasants and burghers? (I don't remember how you call the "bourgeois" in english), to help fund my coffers, I noticed that the taxes I get from them decreases over time, without being in a state of war or the demesne base income changing throught events and such. Is this related to loyalty? (I'm talking of being a count with one province).

b.Also should I pillage a conquered province (to help fill my empty coffers) even if I think to claim it later for my own? I would think rather not.

c.How do you cope with a -100 gold or more in your coffers and don't get an event to borrow money?

d.When your liege ask for your troops(I usually accept), do you fully supply your army or do you not fund it at all?

e.I know that the AI doesn't get negative treasury but is there a way so they do and suffer the same problems I have, with big deficits like the event where my army disbands, when I'm about to annex my ennemy. Because generally ounce the Ai is in peace again and disbands its army, they tresury is at zero and can isntantly start to build it up again, then able to imporve provinces and therefore increase revenu, while I'm sitting with a -300 deficit.

2) Wars

a.Many times, when I play a count, I initate wars upon muslims so I try to gain territory. But many times my Liege would make peace with the warring state. This pisses me off, because not only do I not expand, but also my tresory becomes negative and can't declare war upon that state without getting a prestige penalty.

b. How to fuck do you fund your wars?

c.What are generally the number off men you need to siege a certain type of castle? (like the when there just the wood palisage)

d. Do you generally declare war on people or "provoque them"

3)Assinations: what is the minimum need inthe intrigue stats, so your assasinations succeed?

4) When is genrally a good time to break away from your liege?

In conclusion, I'm asking you what is the best way to make money in order to fund wars, assasinate and ultimately expand. Because without money in this game you are nothing.

 

[TempestDK]

1a) It is dependent on loyalty ... peasants at 50% loyalty only pay 50% taxes, that is why your income goes down over time as their loyalty becomes worse. Start researching some of the things that give peasant loyalty, then you can tax them extra with no bad effect.

1b) I never do it ... as I almost always only go to war to push claims or conquer pagans/muslims. Remember that pillaging will give you a piety hit.

1c) Usually you can get events that forces you sell off building in your province(s) to help you get back in the black. Other than that, just wait until you are above zero again.

generally I dislike being in debts that I cannot pay off within 6-12 months.

1d) I almost NEVER give him my troops, as I might never see them again, as the AI is often bad at disbanding them after the war is over. There is no way to force him to do it either, except by declaring independence. If you give them to him, don't pay a dime to their upkeep ... let him do it.

1e) no ... the AI can never go into deficit for more than a month (at month's end it will reset to 0). This is done to help the AI as it is not smart enough to handle the finances, and all the realms would eventually go broke.

2a) Common occurence when you have a liege. If he feels he can't get anything out of the war, he will settle peace. It is very very annoying. Often he does it exactly when you have won the siege or almost won it.

Only suggestions is to pause the game as soon as the siege is over, so you can settle peace first.

Also try to get the liege involved in another war somewhere ... if he is busy fighting someone in another place, he seems less likely to accept peace offers from the enemy you are currently engaged in.

Thirdly ...research siege engines ... the faster you finish the siege, the greater chance of you getting to settle peace before your liege.

2b) save up for it

2c) don't know really

2d) I usually just declare war when I feel the need to.

 

[Baranov]

Thx for the repply, sorry for asking so many things, but that was information I needed to confirm, for future endevors and understand why I start a vicious cycle and end playing a hellish game.

 

[Kamamura]

I understand your frustrations. In real life, as in CK, there is a huge gap between rich and poor, and between small and large. Poor never have enough and have to turn every dime twice before spending it, while rich throw money left and right and never run out

As a count or small duke, you have a hard time funding even short wars, you have to plan everything carefully, and avoid prolonged conflicts.

Now, as a king of large Bohemian empire, I have always have 5000+ in cash and I don't care much about income, unless I drop below 2000. I even send money to vassals that develop too slowly - they use it immediately for construction.

I also noticed that high stability brings events that give nice sums now and then - I have royal prerogatory, and the indulgence money often end in my coffers - sums close to 1000, which is nice.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

2b) If you really want a province, just go into debt. -100 gold (or even -1000 gold) is nothing to worry about. After a couple of decades in the game most AI-rulers will have very large treasury. Once you go to war with them and defeat them they will offer you their entire treasury.

In my games I never worry about money

2c) I don't know for sure. But with the hill-fort an army below 1000 men will take forever. So at least a 1000 men is needed.

3) Depends on the intrigue-value of your opponents. If your intrigue (ruler+spymaster) is lower then his then don't even try it

4) When you are strong enough to take care of yourself. So as a count it is usually a very bad thing to stay independent.

 

[King of Men]

For assassins, generally I only assassinate rulers if I'm really desperate. Rulers have additional protection. If you really must kill someone, eliminate the spymaster first, they are much easier targets. (If you have a spare son and the spymaster is female and unmarried, you can even ask to marry her and she will move to your court.) You definitely want a gap of at least 5 between your adjusted Intrigues to kill a ruler, and even then you should expect to fail a few times.

Generally assassins are better for killing inconvenient sons when you've married the eldest daughter. Killing actual rulers almost never works.

 

[carillon]

Heh, though don't listen to Kom when he says killing the rulers never works, my poor Billungs have felt Yngling steel in the dark of night many, many times in our multiplayer game. It has been a brutal massacre to say the least.

 

[unmerged(96020)]

Others have already addressed your questions point-to-point, so I'll just add a few more answers of my own.

Don't be afraid of war debt in CK. It's historical anyway: Medieval rulers constantly go into debt to fund their petty wars. They have a few unsavory ways to recoup their losses, of course, which are (reasonably enough) either not in the game or not very effective in-game.

Regardless, while the early decades will be dry and slow, you'll be swimming in gold after about a generation or two into the game. The poster who said it above is correct: the AI will build large treasuries which you can take by defeating them in wars.

Also, the shorter you're in a war, the better it is in most cases. If you have a target province or two, rally your forces, march to the border (not the provinces themselves: you'll get extra badboy that way I believe) and only then declare war, this will reduce the time in which your liege could backstab you with a stupid peace, as well as reducing the time that the enemy AI's armies will be on the field, giving you a fuller treasury when you win.

If you need to sail (say, a Crusade in the planning), march to the shore, choose to sail to a Christian port nearest to your target (for a Levantine Crusade, Cyprus is always good), and when you're on the sea lane closest to your target province, declare war, change course, land, and surprise the hell out of your infidel opponents!

Also, be careful with assassinations. If the CK AI can be weak and forgiving in other issues, it is draconian with assassinations. If you're discovered, prepare for retaliation from the AI. It can make for an exciting series of assassination wars, but it could also decimate your bloodline and your ruler's piety and prestige like no other.

And finally, playing a county demands a lot of patience from you. Oftentimes it's not that glorious Crusade to conquer Sicily that would finally lift you up from obscurity and poverty, but a well-arranged marriage and perhaps a knife or two in someone's back so you could inherit a duchy in the middle of Germany and really start from there.

And those, well, take time. And luck.

 

[Baranov]

Lol I know I read your multiplayer AARs, just love them. So I took again the hard county of Asturias de Oviedo and applied some of the suggestions:

1)I save up some money to build a forestry and fishing wharft, then a tile factory.

2)Then save up 100+ gold to fund my short wars (I mostly stay on a defensive positon an only take arms when the enemy is arriving at my door step), then the AI gives me some gold for peace. I have been blessed with a 14 level marshal, that has even ounce stopped a 3000 muslim army agaisnt my 1750 men. Also I get many events that say the muslims are splinterred and ant peace, hey works for me)

3)Patience is a great virtue when you are a count: In the Spanish succesion wars(war between galicia-leon-castille) I have grabbed the county of Asturias de Santillas and since I had gold-I became (create title) the only and true Duke of Asturias.

Right now it seems spanish and muslims kindoms keep being at war but seem to go nowhere (very fluids fronts). Only problem Is that I have a muslim blob right next door (ex duchy of galicia) of emirate of sevilla (3 provinces) and 3 of his vassals. I managed to conquer the provinces in a war but when I demand peace and want to get instored as count of those 3 provinces (demand score of 66,) he refuses with a +112 war score.

Do I have to conquer all those provinces so he gives up? It's the main feeling I've been having with the AI.

Also I gave my fisrt born male child the county of asturias de santilla,a nd have lowered the scutage to 0 so he has a bigger army and therefore use his army and I don't have to raise my own and fund it. I mainly use it when a muslim kingdom declares war on me and help my liege (but under my command) but It seems my king (castilla) seems to be doing great at keeping them at bay and even conquered them Is this a good idea?

 

[TempestDK]

Yes you usually need to get all his provinces before he will give you territory, or he has to be either soundly beaten (no army), or busy with other opponents. Though then he will usually offer you the province himself.

But if you conquer 1 of his 3 provinces, and he still has most of his and his vassals' armies, then there is no reason for him to give in.

A good way to take down that enemy, would be to declare war on his vassal, and then take the vassal provinces one by one, as you can settle peace with them easily.

You can also try to leach off your liege ... when Castille gets into a war, let him fight the hard battles, and then declare war on his opponent and try to sneak in a siege or two.

 

[Baranov]

Well actually the war agaisnt the emirate of sevilla I did not declare (hey I even the emirate of Toledo [a beautifull example of cooperation between a Liege and a somewhat disloyal vassal] and Granda agaisnt me) But as I said before I got events for peace with them, so no pb.

Right now I'm playing wait and see since my conditons doesn't allow me to make war ( -177 gold -67 prestige and 53 piety).

Interesting development:

Castille has succeded with my help to eliminate the emirate of Toledo (finally)

On the other hand the muslims have bashed their way throuhgt Aragon and are at the gates of France and have declared war upon my ally county. I hesitate to go to his aid, also he is independent so... I'm his only hope. Maybe I will sneak attach while the enemy is at going towards him ( way opposite from me)

 

[King of Men]

Heh, though don't listen to Kom when he says killing the rulers never works, my poor Billungs have felt Yngling steel in the dark of night many, many times in our multiplayer game. It has been a brutal massacre to say the least.

Although I have killed many Billungs, I have never (that I recall) killed any who were Counts, Dukes or Kings at the time. That's what I mean by rulers - people who have at least one title. Heirs of rulers are quite a different kettle of ribs!

 

[Puritan]

I've never had good luck with assassinations outside of my court. They almost always results in a sucessful hit against my sons or myself. I tend to rely more on becoming papal controller if possible.

 

[Slavick3000]

When my count/duke/king is nearing the end of his life, I often try to "spend" his prestige and piety with a few (or a bit more than a few...) assassinations to soften up tough enemies or open up lucrative inheritances or simply for fun or RP.
One thing I noticed in those "killing sprees" is that the thieves guilds (in your target's realm) really help, and it seems they stack.
In my last game session, I attempted 10 assassinations against Robert Cuthrose de Normandie (King of England), who has been playing whack-a-mole with every English count for the past 30-40 years, resulting in low stability and a thieves guild in practically every demesne province he had. My intrigue of 32 against his 29, I got 6 "SUCCEEDED" results, 3 "failed, but has not been discovered" results, and 1 "failed and has been discovered" result.
Meanwhile, my 6 other assassination attempts (against my Knytling "cousin") gave me "failed and was discovered" 5 times, and "succeeded but was discovered" once. It was my 32 intrigue against his 24.
So courtiers of kings of large, unstable demesnes are much easier to target than those of small, well-managed ones.

 

[Baranov]

So far I took the advice you gave me and started a new game with the county of Asturias de Oviedo. I have expanded like never before with a count. Almost half of the knindom of Castille (almosr 2/3 of Iberia) is mine.

Something weird happened: I became duke without creating the title or conquering the second provinced I needed for that, maybe because I had 7+ provinces?

One last thing about the game mechanics, the stats I see for my court members and family: are they the basics stats or do they acknowledge that effects of traits? because I get a lot of "I could be better than..." when clearly I see that their stats are inferior. Ex: I have a chancellor with 11 points of diplomacy and the some guy says he could be better but he has like 4 points in diplomacy. I read that that sort event was supposed to help to put in place a better court member in a specific position. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I ounce replaced my steward with the one wo claimed to be better, but It seemed I just got less gold with him. Do oyu guys get the same thing? I just think tha events fire so people leave my court and go help populate other AI courts. I really dont mind except when my level 14 marshal went away to the Emirate of badajoz and became marshal there (when he is a zealous motherfucker), and started to kick Castilla ass. This has put me in a dire situation indirectly.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Something weird happened: I became duke without creating the title or conquering the second provinced I needed for that, maybe because I had 7+ provinces?

Your liege probably granted you a duke-title or you inherited one

"I could be better than..." when clearly I see that their stats are inferior.

These events can fire for your children if they don't hold a position. But they will always consider themselves better because they are your kids.

So check for who those events fire exactly

EDIT
And please watch your language, this is a family-friendly forum.

Thank you

 

[Baranov]

My sincere apologies, Its just I got really annoyed when my best marshal went away, after years of faithfull service and being friend of the duke, and went to the ennemy and now I'm in a very tight spot.

"Your liege probably granted you a duke-title or you inherited one" - well the title of duke of Asturias has to be created in the 1066 scenario and you need to have both provinces. Also the King doesn't hold that title for the above reasons and nobody else has it.

"These events can fire for your children if they don't hold a position. But they will always consider themselves better because they are your kids." - well I get a lot of these events from my kids, but also from many of my court members (non-family).

 

[TempestDK]

"These events can fire for your children if they don't hold a position. But they will always consider themselves better because they are your kids." - well I get a lot of these events from my kids, but also from many of my court members (non-family).

Male courtiers will think they are better than women advisors even if the stats doesn't show that, as far as I know.

And maybe (I am not sure) Catholics think themselves better than Muslim, Pagan or Othodox advisors. Maybe it is only if you have a Diocese Bishop, who will give you bad events if one of your advisors is of the wrong religion.

 

[Actinguy]

My sincere apologies, Its just I got really annoyed when my best marshal went away, after years of faithfull service and being friend of the duke, and went to the ennemy and now I'm in a very tight spot.

"Your liege probably granted you a duke-title or you inherited one" - well the title of duke of Asturias has to be created in the 1066 scenario and you need to have both provinces. Also the King doesn't hold that title for the above reasons and nobody else has it.

"These events can fire for your children if they don't hold a position. But they will always consider themselves better because they are your kids." - well I get a lot of these events from my kids, but also from many of my court members (non-family).

Actually, my second-most-recent CK AAR was as the count of one of the Asturias', and literally the second I unpaused the game at the beginning, the King immediately named me Duke of Asturias. The King gets to create any title based off of not just his land, but the land of his vassals as well. If you had one Asturias, and another one of the King's vassals (or the King himself) had the other one, the King could create the title and give it to you.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Actually, my second-most-recent CK AAR was as the count of one of the Asturias', and literally the second I unpaused the game at the beginning, the King immediately named me Duke of Asturias. The King gets to create any title based off of not just his land, but the land of his vassals as well. If you had one Asturias, and another one of the King's vassals (or the King himself) had the other one, the King could create the title and give it to you.

The AI can only create titles if at least one of the provinces that make up that title is part of his demesne.

A human player can create titles even if all provinces are held by vassals.