Unacceptable AI

[WaxPython]

The attached pic says it all really. A woefully unprepared Germany with 140 divisions many of which stationed in Africa decide to open a new front out of the blue and attack the Soviet Union which is complete suicide and doomed my play through as Italy.
I understand this happening at launch but this many months in and the ai is still not fixed?

 

[mabus81]

Just be happy that the german AI waited until 1942. In my Italy game that happened in October 1939. Game was basically over immediately.

 

[Khevenhuller]

The attached pic says it all really. A woefully unprepared Germany with 140 divisions many of which stationed in Africa decide to open a new front out of the blue and attack the Soviet Union which is complete suicide and doomed my play through as Italy.
I understand this happening at launch but this many months in and the ai is still not fixed?

Not fixed, no sign of it being fixed. The new air-based improvements will be a good indication if it is going to look at the guts of a broken air combat system and fix it, or just distract everyone with a shiny new UI approach as there is no actual content.

After that we'll get some clue as to how PDX may approach the other broken aspects of the game.

K

 

[Agenor]

Here is another example of what is wrong with the German AI: Most of Germany is occupied and Germany declares war on Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands.

http://imgur.com/a/hslFI

I guess they didn't have enough problems already.

Surprisingly, they won the war in Europe with very little help from me - I sent them seven divisions. They just carried on defeating the Soviets, then sent their Eastern army to the West and reconquered Germany. Italy broke through in the South of France and ended up owning France. German and Italian sliders were set on max, or it would have ended very differently.


P.S.: How the heck does one upload images so they appear on the page?

 

[Napoleonetniet]

P.S.: How the heck does one upload images so they appear on the page?

below the box you type your reply/post in on the right side (one from the edge) 'upload a file'
and then below the uploaded file you can select either insert as a thumbnail into the post or as the ffull image
rmb copy(image) and paste also works if its an image from the web

 

[Micah Goodman 2]

The focus for the Devs isn't to make the AI usable it's making new focus trees for countries that most people will never play. This game has been out for just about a year and the AI is just as bad as it was on release. So many game play issues are getting very little attention that it's laughable. Sub warfare doesn't work. Air warfare doesn't work. The AI is broken. The game has had the same AI issues since HoI I was released. Hell, the Sahara desert problem has been an issue since release and after a year of being unable to fix it they just adopted the mod solution of making the territory impassable. I like Paradox games as a whole. But so far HoI 3 and 4 have been a total bust.

 

[Alexlazer]

The image says it all, the mediocre AI completely ruins the game. PDX get to work!

 

[Ancalimé]

Not fixed, no sign of it being fixed. The new air-based improvements will be a good indication if it is going to look at the guts of a broken air combat system and fix it, or just distract everyone with a shiny new UI approach as there is no actual content.

I worry about this as well. There has been a peculiar lack of clear information regarding comprehensive mechanics overhaul.

The HoI4 development cycle so far has put too much emphasis on eye candies and too little on actual game fixing. If the past trend is any indication, there may be a lot more frustrated and disgruntled players out there.

 

[Redz28]

The focus for the Devs isn't to make the AI usable it's making new focus trees for countries that most people will never play. This game has been out for just about a year and the AI is just as bad as it was on release. So many game play issues are getting very little attention that it's laughable. Sub warfare doesn't work. Air warfare doesn't work. The AI is broken. The game has had the same AI issues since HoI I was released. Hell, the Sahara desert problem has been an issue since release and after a year of being unable to fix it they just adopted the mod solution of making the territory impassable. I like Paradox games as a whole. But so far HoI 3 and 4 have been a total bust.

There's no money in fixing issues, of course.

 

[Solaxe]

The focus for the Devs isn't to make the AI usable it's making new focus trees for countries that most people will never play.

Speak for yourself

 

[Gwydion5]

I'm not sure everyone was around on the forums when 1.3.3 was released. But a lot of effort by myself and others in the community were spent trying to understand and report on the AI issues. Here are some threads to check out:

• February 23rd 2017 : 1.3.3 (2dd2) Is AI Germany competitive in your games?
• February 25th 2017 : Issues with AI Germany is why Germany loses the war in 1941.
• February 26th 2017 : A flaw in the execution of the new resource system
• March 2nd 2017 : (1.3.3)Is new method for resource shortages the underlying cause of German AI problems?
• March 11th 2017 : Soviet Overwhelm After Patch 1.33

There are more than those as well, that's just what my search turned up that is low hanging fruit.

Now I don't expect 1.4 to be a silver bullet for all the issues or the AI or anything like that. But if you spend some time going through those threads and pages, it is unequivocally obvious to anyone and everyone that it is not a lack of information or complaints that eludes the HOI4 team on the issues with the AI. We also have a second DD AI post this Wednesday. We should wait until 1.4 is released, when we actually have factual experience / knowledge to draw on, before making judgments, and expressing opinion on what may or may not be, being fixed/worked on.

 

[Tempestra]

The image says it all, the mediocre AI completely ruins the game. PDX get to work!

At this point mediocre AI would be a significant improvement

 

[Axe99]

The attached pic says it all really. A woefully unprepared Germany with 140 divisions many of which stationed in Africa decide to open a new front out of the blue and attack the Soviet Union which is complete suicide and doomed my play through as Italy.
I understand this happening at launch but this many months in and the ai is still not fixed?

The "Germany tanking" thing isn't actually an issue from launch. HoI4 is a very complex game, and changes made by the team to try and improve other things seemed to cause Germany some trouble in 1.3.3. There was an earlier patch when Germany rolled over the Soviets more often than not. Indeed, the whole German/Soviet balance thing is an ongoing issue all the way back to HoI1. When someone works out how to crack that nut, they should get a permanent credit in the HoI series forevermore .

Not fixed, no sign of it being fixed. The new air-based improvements will be a good indication if it is going to look at the guts of a broken air combat system and fix it, or just distract everyone with a shiny new UI approach as there is no actual content.

After that we'll get some clue as to how PDX may approach the other broken aspects of the game.

K

Now, now - fair cop when something has been done wrong by all means, but Podcat has mentioned a couple of times that recent changes to the AI have meant Germany has been smashing the AI more than the devs would prefer, which is at least a sign that it may have been fixed.

I worry about this as well. There has been a peculiar lack of clear information regarding comprehensive mechanics overhaul.

The HoI4 development cycle so far has put too much emphasis on eye candies and too little on actual game fixing. If the past trend is any indication, there may be a lot more frustrated and disgruntled players out there.

This sounds a little unfair - the devs have gone on record saying that both TfV and DoD are smaller DLCs specifically so that they can task more resources on improving underlying game issues (and the AI in particular, although also things like the UI for air units). AI, though, doesn't 'look' big because there are no mechanics changes per se, even if the way the game plays can change substantially. We get (our second for DoD) AI DD this week, so we'll (presumably, but hopefully a safe guess ) get some idea of the progress they've made at that point.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Now, now - fair cop when something has been done wrong by all means, but Podcat has mentioned a couple of times that recent changes to the AI have meant Germany has been smashing the AI more than the devs would prefer, which is at least a sign that it may have been fixed.

I admire your faith, really I do. I am a bit too hard headed these days and want some actual evidence, blame it on my inherent atheism. The air mod will give us some sort of idea what the overall thrust and intention is.

K

 

[Axe99]

I admire your faith, really I do. I am a bit too hard headed these days and want some actual evidence, blame it on my inherent atheism. The air mod will give us some sort of idea what the overall thrust and intention is.

K

I am an eternal optimist . That said, based on the logic of "no sign of it being fixed", a post by the dev that it has improved is technically a sign that it is being fixed, irrespective of how much faith we might have in it . Either way, we'll see probably before too long, and then if I'm wrong you can pillory me as appropriate .

 

[Meglok]

I am an eternal optimist . That said, based on the logic of "no sign of it being fixed", a post by the dev that it has improved is technically a sign that it is being fixed, irrespective of how much faith we might have in it . Either way, we'll see probably before too long, and then if I'm wrong you can pillory me as appropriate .

It will be 50 lashes with a wet noodle @ Dawn in the public square!

I can understand the OPs frustration. Right now the game is basically unplayable for many customers. I have put the game aside and been playing Stars in Shadow while waiting for the next patch. But these issues are well known and PDS is taking steps to address the complaints. 1.4 Oak is supposed to be about improving the performance of the land and battle planner ai as well as improving the air war.

1.4 will be the proverbial fish or cut bait patch. More eye candy will not distract people a year after release. Either PDS makes significant progress with improving the ai or it is time to admit the ai is a dumpster fire and it is time to move on. Wednesdays DD is supposed to cover more ai improvements and we will have more info to work on then.

 

[Axe99]

It will be 50 lashes with a wet noodle @ Dawn in the public square!

I can understand the OPs frustration. Right now the game is basically unplayable for many customers. I have put the game aside and been playing Stars in Shadow while waiting for the next patch. But these issues are well known and PDS is taking steps to address the complaints. 1.4 Oak is supposed to be about improving the performance of the land and battle planner ai as well as improving the air war.

1.4 will be the proverbial fish or cut bait patch. More eye candy will not distract people a year after release. Either PDS makes significant progress with improving the ai or it is time to admit the ai is a dumpster fire and it is time to move on. Wednesdays DD is supposed to cover more ai improvements and we will have more info to work on then.

Hahaha - that's my kind of punishment - beats a cat o'nine tails at least . I fully sympathise with their frustration as well. Because I'd been neglecting them, my first two games with 1.3.3 were with Germany, so I didn't spot the issue, and I think my next game after that was the Soviets (which is also harder to spot). After a few games with minors, it became clear that 1.3.3 was not Germany's patch, and it definitely has ramifications for enjoying rest of the game. My more recent games as the Allies or Soviets have actually been playing in a way that the 'main game' was the Allied/Soviet battle after Germany had been dealt with.

Fingers crossed we get some good news tomorrow, and 1.4 will be a good step forward. The devs did pretty well improving things between 1.3 in late December with TfV and 1.3.3 in Feb sometime (I think, around then-ish) and that was with a couple of weeks off for Christmas - they'll have had more time to work on things since, and Steelvolt and the others working on AI will be learning all the time. I'd bet a wet noodle lashing thing's'll get better .

 

[rcbricker33]

gonna have to hold you to that @Axe99

 

[Axe99]

gonna have to hold you to that @Axe99

Hahaha, in Steelvolt I trust, or it's a wet-noodlin' for me .

 

[Gwydion5]

I can understand the OPs frustration. Right now the game is basically unplayable for many customers.

Absolutely. I always find myself coming back to 1.3.3. frustrated because the Axis are so broken that it's not really playable as anyone other than the Axis, preferably Germany in terms of a historical single player WW2 simulator (unmodded). Playing Russia, UK, USA, France, etc... always ends with the Axis losing to Russia by 42 at the latest. But I guess what frustrates me most is how 1.3.3. was released, how they decided to move on with 1.4 / DoD leaving the game in this state for 96 days (and counting), and how after all the evidence and information presented 1.3.3. did not seem to generate much discussion/engagement about the necessity or possibility of a hotfix to restore some balance.

I share that because I want people to know where I'm coming from and how I see things. But that doesn't excuse comments about 1.4. before 1.4 is released. We have no idea the extent of progress that has been made on the AI issues. Even tomorrows DD might still leave some big issues open to questions on if they will be resolved or not by 1.4. We won't know that until it's released, and I despite any criticisms/disagreements I may have with the team/PDS, believe they are and will be working up to the last second they can on trying to resolve those issues. But beyond that we should remain objective and not let the temptation of our frustrations and biases get the better of us. Because it just makes it that much harder for constructive and legitimate feedback to be heard in what is essentially partisan divide on the forums.

I just want to make sure that we go in to 1.4. as reasonable and objective as possible. So the skepticism (which is completely justified) isn't helping us now. So I advocate patience and objectivity. This of course is not directed at you, or anyone in particular, but rather a general statement clarifying my own views, hoping it helps others relate and remain constructive.