Unable to naval invade because of too little intel

[Toastyman]

Hello all,
Currently playing for a couple of British achievements when Japan declared war on me.
Simple summary, I am monarchist and directly control all the colonies and Japan has take over china at this point. The US is at war with japan as well, but they are not in my faction due to me being monarchist and all.
So far the war is going well, but I thought I should open up more fronts by navel invading china.
However, It says I have no intel in the south china sea, even though I have radar in British Malaya, air superiority, and the majority of my navy assigned to the area doing every mission type except for minelaying.
There is no way that my navy is out of range, since I have ports in British Malaya.
No naval battle have happened for a while now even though a little while ago there would be around one a day, which leads me to believe that they pulled out of the area.
I have rebooted the game, but the problem still persists.
I'm on ironman mode so I can't go back a save either.
I am not sure if this is a straight up bug or just me missing something, which is why I am posting it here.
Any suggestions would help, and if nothing can solve it, I guess I will just have to settle with continuing my land invasion via India.

 

[Harin]

It is possible you have encountered a bug. You may want to go to this thread and see if it is similar to the situation you have.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/hoi-4-naval-superiority-at-0-1-9-1-beta-05ef.1366693/

 

[Simon_9732495]

I don't think it's a bug. (See the linked thread from @Harin )

They made you require naval intel for naval invasions. You can get them by fighting the enemy navy, but also by upgrading your agency (naval department) by building radars (and I think with scout planes) and establishing a spy network. (And by capturing a spy from the enemy.)

//edit: New information available. Please read Posting #8 of this thread

 

[Mousetick]

I don't think it's a bug.

They made you require naval intel for naval invasions. You can get them by fighting the enemy navy, but also by upgrading your agency (naval department) by building radars (and I think with scout planes) and establishing a spy network. (And by capturing a spy from the enemy.)

It looks like a bug if you play vanilla without any DLC. It didn't happen before the 1.9 Husky release.
Half of the workarounds you suggest to get naval intel are not an option without the relevant DLCs, particularly La Resistance.

You can have radar coverage, air superiority over the affected sea zones, you can have greater friendly naval supremacy than the enemy, you can have greater or equal decryption than the enemy's encryption - it doesn't matter, the game still thinks that "we know too little about this region!"

Fighting the enemy navy is not an option either when you have sunk all convoys and the remaining enemy ships are sitting in port without fuel.

Judging by the number of reports here, on Steam and reddit, something is not working correctly and/or not communicated clearly to the player. That something has probably to do with requiring recent naval combat to gain naval intel, while naval combat is not possible in some circumstances. So players get stuck and have no idea why.

 

[Simon_9732495]

I don't want to jump into the philosophical discussion "what is a bug and what not".

I said "I don't think it's a bug", because it seems to my, that the DEVs want us to have 30% naval intel to be able to do naval invasions.

I agree that there are problems with this mechanic. There might be oversights in how to get naval intel. Why don't I have enough intel, when a sizeable task force is patrolling there for weeks?

 

[Mousetick]

I don't want to jump into the philosophical discussion "what is a bug and what not".

Don't worry, neither do I I've edited my post above to say "It looks like a bug" to avoid provoking another heated discussion.

I said "I don't think it's a bug", because it seems to my, that the DEVs want us to have 30% naval intel to be able to do naval invasions.

Right.

I agree that there are problems with this mechanic. There might be oversights in how to get naval intel. Why don't I have enough intel, when a sizeable task force is patrolling there for weeks?

Yes. The idea to decrease the decay rate of naval intel after naval combat, as suggested in the bug report thread, would not be a sufficient solution. Not only the presence of friendly task forces patrolling the sea zone should contribute, but maybe the other factors such as radar, and air superiority should be rebalanced to contribute more. And finally, without the La Resistance DLC, perhaps this 30% threshold should be lowered, since there are fewer means available to gain naval intel.

 

[ecpgieicg]

It looks like a bug if you play vanilla without any DLC. It didn't happen before the 1.9 Husky release.

I was playing 1.8.2 and encountered the same issue. FYI.

 

[Simon_9732495]

A month and a lot of testing later the fog has lifted a bit.
I made a wiki page about naval intel efficiency (with the help of @Mousetick ) https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Battle_plan#Naval_intel_efficiency

I think that should answer most questions. If not, please ask!

 

[Zeprion]

A month and a lot of testing later the fog has lifted a bit.
I made a wiki page about naval intel efficiency (with the help of @Mousetick ) https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Battle_plan#Naval_intel_efficiency

I think that should answer most questions. If not, please ask!

I read that but I still don't get it. Even in a war with many nations that had ships. He still has no enemy ships or planes around in the area, and has his own ships, planes and radars there. So it makes no sense how that doesn't work, but it's still not 100%. Which is why I most likely think is a bug.

 

[Colonel_Kraken]

This is the exact same thing I brought up in this thread. If it is a bug with the latest update, I certainly would like to know. I don't ever remember having this issue before with the American Navy when attempting to invade!

 

[Simon_9732495]

If it is a bug with the latest update, I certainly would like to know. I don't ever remember having this issue before with the American Navy when attempting to invade!

I don't think it's new. I remember having this in my early days of HOI4. (I think against Spain) Reading "We know too little about this region." and having no clue what to do about it.
However i just clicked execute naval invasion and it started at some point, so I thought it might be that my planes or ships are gathering some info.
More likely it was the enemy reshuffeling naval orders and having 0 naval supremacy for a moment.

I agree with you, that something should be done about this. I'm writing a suggestion at the moment...

//edit: Suggestion: -> https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ained-over-time-by-ships-on-missions.1402451/

 

[Mousetick]

I don't think it's new.

It is new. As far as I can tell the whole 'naval intel efficiency must be greater than 30% to gain naval supremacy' and underlying naval intel efficiency mechanics did not exist prior to 1.9. The define NAVAL_SUPREMACY_INTEL_LOW was added in 1.9 along with a bunch of other defines governing naval intel efficiency.

It would be easy to verify by reverting to 1.8 and looking at the game files, but I'm too lazy for that and won't bother.

The complaints and questions about "We know too little about this region" arose after 1.9 was released.

Some players may be confused with the other requirement for naval invasion, that is to have more than 50% naval supremacy in the sea regions traversed by the naval invasion, which existed prior to 1.9.

 

[Simon_9732495]

It is new. As far as I can tell the whole 'naval intel efficiency must be greater than 30% to gain naval supremacy' and underlying naval intel efficiency mechanics did not exist prior to 1.9. The define NAVAL_SUPREMACY_INTEL_LOW was added in 1.9 along with a bunch of other defines governing naval intel efficiency.

Just loaded v1.5.4 from 2 years ago:

And there it says:

And in 00_defines.lua of 1.5.4

NAVAL_SUPREMACY_INTEL_LOW = 0.3,                                -- we need more intel than this to get any supremacy

(But in the section NNavy. Now this define is in NIntel)

But I don't know how you were able to get naval intel back than. It worked different (not with ideology and trade law, and so on...), but I don't know how.
They integrated that define in the new intel stuff.

 

[Mousetick]

Just loaded v1.5.4 from 2 years ago:

Huh all right, never mind. I'm a fool.