Unable to achieve naval supremacy even though my ships on patrol mission

[elektrizikekswerk]

It's making literally the same decision though (suicide invasion that loses all of the troops). Evaluation is identical too, player can even activate/deactivate naval missions to take advantage of the poor threat assessment right now, if you want to be attentive enough. But you don't need that because the AI will just land and lose all its units over and over.

I meant within the context of the game as a whole, yes. Naval invasions are also internally inconsistent with themselves (example about being able to launch invasions that are trivially intercepted, but blocked when they would not be). If the ostensible reason for stopping the invasion is that it's too dangerous/suicidal, this is the opposite of the behavior we should expect.

I've already demonstrated that the risk assessment failure fully impacts the AI right now. The risk assessment should be improved, but lack of it does not meaningfully alter the gameplay implications of having sensible naval invasion rules.

I guess we can simply agree to disagree here.
I think relaxing the rules would lead to the AI being even more suicidal. Therefore relaxing the rules would be a bad idea
You think that won't be the case. Therefore relaxing the rules would do no harm.

No matter what either of us say will convince the other from the opposite. Besides obviously hard facts which neither of us can provide unless the game is actually changed in that way.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think relaxing the rules would lead to the AI being even more suicidal. Therefore relaxing the rules would be a bad idea
You think that won't be the case. Therefore relaxing the rules would do no harm.

Rather, I would estimate that the increase in AI suicide rate would be trivial enough to be negligible, while the benefit to the gameplay significant. I still agree AI should have better threat assessment overall.

To illustrate, consider your (n) vs (n+1) example. When n is 1 you will notice a significant change. When n is 1000 the change in experience will be so minor that it's not worth considering. In practice, HOI 4 is closer to 1000 (it is trivial to get any AI in the game to bleed casualties until it runs out of manpower at absurd casualty ratios if desired). You can even leave a port in their hands and just wipe divisions as they land there w/o capturing province repeatedly if you have the patience for that sort of thing. This takes even less investment than killing the troops at sea, because you can do it without building a single ship.

If your position is that the AI is so bad that threat assessment should be a priority fix, I mostly agree. I would first prioritize fixing controls that don't work and core mechanics like "who gets land when someone wins a war", but AI performance would certainly be up there.

 

[Takethe3]

The only good solution to this problem in my opinion is to remove the arbitrary 50% naval supremacy requirement to launch naval invasions. Let us determine ourselves if we want to launch stupid invasions and get caught by a huge home fleet.

Fully agree. Playing as Britain I often leave either no divisions or only those training at home - this simply isn't realistic.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

Rather, I would estimate that the increase in AI suicide rate would be trivial enough to be negligible, while the benefit to the gameplay significant. I still agree AI should have better threat assessment overall.

To illustrate, consider your (n) vs (n+1) example. When n is 1 you will notice a significant change. When n is 1000 the change in experience will be so minor that it's not worth considering. In practice, HOI 4 is closer to 1000

I'm even inclined to agree except for one fringe case which is possibly the most important one. Germany.
With the current rules (AI) Germany will never do naval invasions because it cannot get the needed naval superiority.
Now imagine Germany randomly trying to invade UK. Or even the US...
That's quite literally the +1 which could kill the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm even inclined to agree except for one fringe case which is possibly the most important one. Germany.
With the current rules (AI) Germany will never do naval invasions because it cannot get the needed naval superiority.
Now imagine Germany randomly trying to invade UK. Or even the US...
That's quite literally the +1 which could kill the game.

AI Germany would probably win WW2 before the USA joins honestly. See my earlier screenshots for why.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

AI Germany would probably win WW2 before the USA joins honestly. See my earlier screenshots for why.

My point exactly.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My point exactly.

It didn't kill the game before when Germany won almost every time vs USSR, so I'm not seeing how this meets your standard of "kills the game".

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

It didn't kill the game before when Germany won almost every time vs USSR, so I'm not seeing how this meets your standard of "kills the game".

Well, I didn't really play since MtG because of that. So there is that...

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

This problem still has not been fixed, none of these suggestions work, i have this exact same problem and the game is literally unplayable while this persists.

My situation is identical to OP"s
Is there anything i can do about it?

 

[Mousetick]

Is there anything i can do about it?

You can read the Wiki: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Battle_plan#Naval_invasion. The whole section, from beginning to end.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

"To be able to get naval supremacy, you have to have at least 30% naval intelligence efficiency."

Does this mean I need to send spies to infiltrate the enemy's navy?

 

[Mousetick]

"To be able to get naval supremacy, you have to have at least 30% naval intelligence efficiency."

Does this mean I need to send spies to infiltrate the enemy's navy?

Yes, you can build a spy network, among other things.

The Wiki lists all the factors that influence naval intel efficiency: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Battle_plan#Naval_intel_efficiency.

Feel free to ask more questions if something isn't clear, after reading the whole thing. You need to read the whole thing, if you just stop at the first sentence and start asking questions, that's not going to work.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

Yes, you can build a spy network, among other things.

The Wiki lists all the factors that influence naval intel efficiency: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Battle_plan#Naval_intel_efficiency.

Feel free to ask more questions if something isn't clear, after reading the whole thing. You need to read the whole thing, if you just stop at the first sentence and start asking questions, that's not going to work.

I didn't stop at the first sentence, i quoted that in particular because it was the only factor that i had not already done, so if i was missing anything that had to be it.

 

[Mousetick]

I didn't stop at the first sentence, i quoted that in particular because it was the only factor that i had not already done, so if i was missing anything that had to be it.

Ok, sorry I misunderstood.

"naval intelligence" is not a component, it's the whole. A spy network is one of the components, along with enemy ideology, enemy trade law, radar, etc. that make up the whole.

So the sentence "To be able to get naval supremacy, you have to have at least 30% naval intelligence efficiency." doesn't mean you need a spy network to infiltrate the enemy's navy at 30%. It means you need to have several components (aka factors), which combined add up to 30% or more. A spy network is one of the possible components.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

Ok, sorry I misunderstood.

"naval intelligence" is not a component, it's the whole. A spy network is one of the components, along with enemy ideology, enemy trade law, radar, etc. that make up the whole.

So the sentence "To be able to get naval supremacy, you have to have at least 30% naval intelligence efficiency." doesn't mean you need a spy network to infiltrate the enemy's navy at 30%. It means you need to have several components (aka factors), which combined add up to 30% or more. A spy network is one of the possible components.

Yeah, i understood that.
Thanks for the help.