Un-timegate succession. Bring special succession back on par with typical ones.

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Red-XIII

Second Lieutenant
46 Badges
Jul 2, 2012
173
157
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
To put it simply - gavelkind is hell for a lot of people.
I know that some like it, and I know that some view it as a challenge. I also appreciate the effect it has on AI lands.

But this being forced for over half the game is NOT a fun mechanic.

Gavelkind forces you to either:
1. Cheese the system by killing your own kids all the time. Or by just not having them. How many actual kings can you imagine doing that IRL?
2. Drown your own demesne in blood on almost every succession.
3. Play as an aggressive blob the whole game, so that you could "fill the quota" with new lands you don't even want.

I can handle something like this as a part of "temporary tribal/pagan penalty" package like I did in CK2, but the idea of enduring this bullshit till (AFAIK) 1200+ just to be able to play the game the way I like it is unbearable (I like me a peace game with stable demesne TYVM, the "get off my lawn" kind where, past the initial "locals unification" I don't go for conquest and just focus on keeping my realm strong and safe).

Then there's the fact that special succession types can't be applied realm-wide any more.
Honestly, I don't even see why I have to explain just how ridiculous this is.
Biggest selling point of those successions was bypassing the gavelkind hell, yet they no longer do that.
Furthermore even when you don't need to bypass GKH any more, they still don't mesh well with whatever your "normal" law is, creating a mess where a cultural/religious feature should have been.
 
  • 3
  • 3
Reactions:

Blk82

Lt. General
13 Badges
Sep 8, 2018
1.517
2.511
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Partitioned inheritance exists to fuel conflict, as all realms suffer the "expand or die" problem, as territory is lost every generation due to split inheritance. The succession systems in CKII were a mess. The AI would always derp around in gavelkind for centuries, and couldn't hold onto elective titles, while the player could get primo/ultimogeniture succession within the life of their first ruler.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Red-XIII

Second Lieutenant
46 Badges
Jul 2, 2012
173
157
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
You just said it yourself - AI kept to gavelkind even back in CK2. So there's no need to keep it enforced for AI's sake.
And players know their cheeses. For us gavel-kind fuels celibacy, assassinations, and disinheriting excuses, NOT conflict.
Being forced to do those for a while is ok. Being forced to do that for most of the game is not.

Besides, do we even really WANT to try forcing players into anything in the first place?
Take a good long look at CK2/3 and ask yourself that again. I mean this game doesn't even have victory conditions.
From it's very foundation it was designed to be enjoyed in variety of ways.

And gavel-kind, btw, is one of the LEAST enjoyed ways around. I mean, there's less people that like it than people that hate it.
And it's not even a good source of difficulty since it's wAAAAAAAy more annoying to handle than it is difficult to handle.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

luxfelix

Colonel
53 Badges
Sep 21, 2014
1.184
1.700
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
Would something like a "will for the line of succession" feature alleviate the frustration with gavelkind rules?

Additionally, preparing some children for life in the clergy to keep the demesne intact?