"Un-generaling" a Ruler

[The Empire]

So I was just wondering if there was anyway to remove a ruler as a general through editing the save game file

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Related question: does it decrease the ruler's potential lifespan in any way if he's a general, even if he's not commanding troops?

 

[Steel_atlas]

Related question: does it decrease the ruler's potential lifespan in any way if he's a general, even if he's not commanding troops?

As long as he isn’t drilling or fighting battles I don’t think there is a problem but it would be unfortunate if your 1/1/1 heir had a drilling accident wouldn’t it?

 

[balmung60]

Related question: does it decrease the ruler's potential lifespan in any way if he's a general, even if he's not commanding troops?

Yes. Normally, there is just one roll for if your ruler will die. Making them a general adds a roll for if they'll die as a general. Having them lead troops adds another roll. Being in combat or leading a siege also adds a roll.

 

[Ketilsen]

What, you think your generals can take the military toys away from the King, once he's started playing with them?

From the wiki: "Monarchs and heirs who have been made into a military leader 5 or more years previous to the current date are also subject to the military leader death check as described for military leaders, resulting in increased chance to die, which is further increased if assigned to an army, and again increased if in a battle or siege." (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Ruler#Deaths)

Basically, for a ruler general, you're rolling two checks instead of one each day, and then another again if in battle.

 

[Steel_atlas]

What, you think your generals can take the military toys away from the King, once he's started playing with them?

From the wiki: "Monarchs and heirs who have been made into a military leader 5 or more years previous to the current date are also subject to the military leader death check as described for military leaders, resulting in increased chance to die, which is further increased if assigned to an army, and again increased if in a battle or siege." (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Ruler#Deaths)

Basically, for a ruler general, you're rolling two checks instead of one each day, and then another again if in battle.

Really silly that you can’t ungeneral a leader then

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Yes. Normally, there is just one roll for if your ruler will die. Making them a general adds a roll for if they'll die as a general. Having them lead troops adds another roll. Being in combat or leading a siege also adds a roll.

I knew it! That's probably been the case since EU3. We always knew it shortened their lives, somehow... but now I understand why. "A second die roll"... yes...

Now, what about drilling the 1/1/1 heir in a severe winter? Does drilling even increase the chance, or just commanding troops is enough?

In THEORY you would put the 1/1/1 heir/king leading an army, have him drill the troops, and put them in a place where there's a severe winter, some inhospitable terrain (swamp, mountains, arctic?) very LOW development (a shoddy, freezing cabin for his living quarters), and non-accepted culture & religion, where there's some decent revolt risk ('unrest', still have EU3 on the brain).

-But how much of all that really, actually makes a difference?


Inquiring minds need to know how to kill their kings & heirs. This was always an arcane subject in the EU3 days. Hopefully we can finally nail this down, and fully understand it.

 

[Brynjar]

It should be possible to remove it by editing the save file if you are playing non-ironman, and don't compress the saves. Just did a quick test with France in at the start. Open the save file in a text editor such as notepad (will look really messy) or textpad, then search for you rulers name, continue until you find the lines looking similar to the ones below, then delete the text in red. In this case it was the second hit when searching the file from the top and downwards:

PS! Make sure you make a backup copy of the save file before opening the save file, just in case you mess up.

Spoiler

1422.10.22={
monarch={
id={
id=2852
type=48
}
name="Charles VII"
country="FRA"
DIP=2
ADM=4
MIL=4
inspiring_leader_personality=yes
well_advised_personality=yes
leader_id={
id=1803
type=49
}
leader={
name="Charles VII de Valois"
type=general
manuever=1
fire=3
shock=2
country="FRA"
monarch_id={
id=2852
type=48
}
activation=1444.11.11
id={
id=1803
type=49
}
}
dynasty="de Valois"
birth_date=1403.2.22
}

Make sure you delete the correct (same) amount of each type of curly brackets.

Edit: The code formatting wouldn't allow text color.
2nd edit: Missed the marking of the first "leader_idea" after the first edit

 

[Dominion]

Yes. Normally, there is just one roll for if your ruler will die. Making them a general adds a roll for if they'll die as a general. Having them lead troops adds another roll. Being in combat or leading a siege also adds a roll.

There's no difference in death chance between being a general and leading an army.
Not for rulers, not for generals.

What you do with that army is a different story, but sitting in a corner leading a 1k stack doesn't make anyone die faster than sitting around unassigned.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

^ So sending the guy up to Kola in the winter makes no difference?? Can't be.

 

[Brynjar]

There's no difference in death chance between being a general and leading an army.
Not for rulers, not for generals.

What you do with that army is a different story, but sitting in a corner leading a 1k stack doesn't make anyone die faster than sitting around unassigned.

When was this changed?
According to the wiki it does matter for Genrals at least: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Military_leader

 

[Dominion]

^ So sending the guy up to Kola in the winter makes no difference?? Can't be.

Not that I know of.

I faintly remember attrition having an effect on their death chance as well as other things @balmung60 has mentioned (combat, sieges, etc.)

But sitting around and not being assigned should not make a difference.

When was this changed?
According to the wiki it does matter for Genrals at least: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Military_leader

I'd be careful with the wiki, but it does make me doubt myself.

Second time in a row I feel out of place. Maybe I'm tired.

 

[balmung60]

I knew it! That's probably been the case since EU3. We always knew it shortened their lives, somehow... but now I understand why. "A second die roll"... yes...

Now, what about drilling the 1/1/1 heir in a severe winter? Does drilling even increase the chance, or just commanding troops is enough?

In THEORY you would put the 1/1/1 heir/king leading an army, have him drill the troops, and put them in a place where there's a severe winter, some inhospitable terrain (swamp, mountains, arctic?) very LOW development (a shoddy, freezing cabin for his living quarters), and non-accepted culture & religion, where there's some decent revolt risk ('unrest', still have EU3 on the brain).

-But how much of all that really, actually makes a difference?

None of that matters. Only being a general, leading an army, and being in battle or leading a siege. Sending you general-heir to a low development province does nothing, sending them into severe winters does nothing, putting them in a transport ship and sending it to sink in the middle of the Atlantic or in battle does nothing, sending them to wrong religion/culture provinces does nothing.

What you want to do is put them in a stack that just barely wins against natives and have them patrol uncolonized land to keep them in battle as much as possible.

Or, these days, you can just take a prestige hit and disinherit them, though that may require a particular DLC.

 

[The Empire]

I knew it! That's probably been the case since EU3. We always knew it shortened their lives, somehow... but now I understand why. "A second die roll"... yes...

Now, what about drilling the 1/1/1 heir in a severe winter? Does drilling even increase the chance, or just commanding troops is enough?

In THEORY you would put the 1/1/1 heir/king leading an army, have him drill the troops, and put them in a place where there's a severe winter, some inhospitable terrain (swamp, mountains, arctic?) very LOW development (a shoddy, freezing cabin for his living quarters), and non-accepted culture & religion, where there's some decent revolt risk ('unrest', still have EU3 on the brain).

-But how much of all that really, actually makes a difference?

Indeed. To my knowledge, the above factors you listed do no make any difference, death being calculated on base chance. Paradox could have very easily added some random events for a ruler commanding an army, or created some base chances for when a ruler is in a province with harsh winter, in a siege, or a battle etc. And definitely not letting a ruler-general die in his 20s while not commanding an army.

It should be possible to remove it by editing the save file if you are playing non-ironman, and don't compress the saves. Just did a quick test with France in at the start. Open the save file in a text editor such as notepad (will look really messy) or textpad, then search for you rulers name, continue until you find the lines looking similar to the ones below, then delete the text in red. In this case it was the second hit when searching the file from the top and downwards:

PS! Make sure you make a backup copy of the save file before opening the save file, just in case you mess up.
1422.10.22={
monarch={
id={
id=2852
type=48
}
name="Charles VII"
country="FRA"
DIP=2
ADM=4
MIL=4
inspiring_leader_personality=yes
well_advised_personality=yes
leader_id={
id=1803
type=49
}
leader={
name="Charles VII de Valois"
type=general
manuever=1
fire=3
shock=2
country="FRA"
monarch_id={
id=2852
type=48
}
activation=1444.11.11
id={
id=1803
type=49
}
}
dynasty="de Valois"
birth_date=1403.2.22
}
Make sure you delete the correct (same) amount of each type of curly brackets.

Edit: The code formatting wouldn't allow text color.
2nd edit: Missed the marking of the first "leader_idea" after the first edit

Thanks for the help! Couldn't find much help while looking around the forums

Edit: This seems to only remove the "ruler" part of the "ruler-general",with the ruler still being a general while not considered a ruler. I'll see how this still affects the life expectancy .

Edit 2: Ruler eventually removed as general after a few years

 

[Telenil]

Or, these days, you can just take a prestige hit and disinherit them, though that may require a particular DLC.

For the records, it's Rights of Man.

 

[Brynjar]

Thanks for the help! Couldn't find much help while looking around the forums

Edit: This seems to only remove the "ruler" part of the "ruler-general",with the ruler still being a general while not considered a ruler. I'll see how this still affects the life expectancy .

Edit 2: Ruler eventually removed as general after a few years

It looks like you may have had your ruler-general assigned to an army. I didn't consider that option when testing at first, and if you are doing it again in the future it's probably easiest to unassign him first. While he is assigned he should be removed completely if you continue searching for the leader id (i.e. "id=1802" in the case below, "id=1803" in my previous post), make sure it's actually the leader id, and not a monarch id (indicated by the leader={ } surrounding the id). You should then find the code which assigns him to the army, deleting the text in red here as well should remove him completely as a general:

Spoiler

army={
id={
id=854
type=54
}
name="Armée royale"
leader={
id=1802
type=49
}
location=183
regiment={
id={
id=827
type=54
}
name="Armagnac's 1st Regiment"
home=175
type="chevauchee"
morale=2.782
}

There is also a mention of the leader id a bit further down, but that appears to be removed once the other two occurances have been removed, and the game is saved in game. It appears to only be a list of your curret leaders ids (generals, monarch, heir, consort), and not require manual deletion:

Spoiler

leader={
id=221
type=49
}
leader={
id=224
type=49
}
leader={
id=1802
type=49
}
monarch={
id=2852
type=48
}
heir={
id=2854
type=48
}
queen={
id=2853
type=48
}

If you should happen to have a ruler with a first name (and number) which is identical to that of another country, you can first do a search for "human=yes" to get to the section of your country.

If the general was removed after a few years, without your monarch dying in the process you probably avoided a Monarch death.