Un-annexable vassals

[unmerged(177849)]

I've gotten myself in the awkward position of having 3 virtually un-annexable vassals with large, slowly decreasing negatives. Since I'm annexing other vassals regularly, the increases in negatives for that will continue to outweigh the slow increases, and I don't think enough positives exist to counter the negatives. Since I am not going for a world conquest, two of the nations represent mainly an aesthetic problem. But the third sits squarely in the way of further conquest (of course I can go through it, but it is getting in the way of connected provinces for coring). I'm Russia and that nation is an Nagoi, expanded by feeding them provinces before I realized they were un-annexable. Currently they have -20 religion, -15 CB, and 1112 annexed vassals. The last will grow soon as another vassal is scheduled for annexation.

Any solutions to this that I am missing?

 

[panionios]

I've gotten myself in the awkward position of having 3 virtually un-annexable vassals with large, slowly decreasing negatives. Since I'm annexing other vassals regularly, the increases in negatives for that will continue to outweigh the slow increases, and I don't think enough positives exist to counter the negatives. Since I am not going for a world conquest, two of the nations represent mainly an aesthetic problem. But the third sits squarely in the way of further conquest (of course I can go through it, but it is getting in the way of connect provinces for coring). I'm Russia and that nation is an Nagoi, expanded by feeding them provinces before I realized they were un-annexable. Currently they have -20 religion, -15 CB, and 1112 annexed vassals. The last will grow soon as another vassal is scheduled for annexation.

Any solutions to this that I am missing?

How the hell did you get -1122 annexed vassals? Are you sure you are reading -1122?

 

[unmerged(177849)]

How the hell did you get -1122 annexed vassals? Are you sure you are reading -1122?

Doh, typo. -112. Still too high.

 

[Yenzen]

You could release it from vassalage and chop it into pieces the good old fashioned way?

Get religious ideas and speed up the good vibes?

 

[panionios]

Doh, typo. -112. Still too high.

200 max. opinion + 50 vassal bonus + 25 money bonus = 275 (anything else I forget?)

So, it's not that high actually. When you have -85 negative modifiers you'll be able to start the process (probably 5-10 years).

 

[lordelenath]

Shouldn't be a problem if you can restrain yourself with annexations for a while. The vassal annexation opinion malus goes away after 20 years if you don't annex any for that long.

 

[AlricWaskir]

Hi,

I see two ways on how to solve/mitigate your problem.
1st: The annexed vassal penalty will be reset after 20 years without annexation. So although you have huge penalties they will simply vanish 20 years after your last annexation. If you really want to get rid of these vassals you should try to avoid annexing other vassals in the meantime.
2nd: you can mitigate this problem beforehand by annexing vassals in a way which I call "cascading waterfall". Let's say you have 4 diplomats and 6 vassals. You start annexing 3 of them outright. However it is important to time the annexations so that they will finish at least 1 month apart. Due to changing longtime boni etc. it is probably better do have half year intervalls. You can check the approximate date of full annexation on the right bar. Just before the first vassal is annexed, you start the annexation of vassal no. 4. When your first diplomat comes back you start annexation of vassal no.5 and when your second diplomat comes back you start the annexation of vassal no. 6. --> Vassal no. 6 will only have a -60 relations penalty and the subsequent month you get your third diplomat back. So you always have a free diplomat but still can annex 6 vassals without too much hassle.

 

[AlricWaskir]

200 max. opinion + 50 vassal bonus + 25 money bonus = 275 (anything else I forget?)

So, it's not that high actually. When you have -85 negative modifiers you'll be able to start the process (probably 5-10 years).

-If you diplo-vassalize you can proclaim guarantee beforehand so that you get an extra 10 for the entire duration of the game. Although this seems a bit gamey.
-If you can you can also get 25 from a royal marriage
-Returning a core in a war will give you +40 per province
-If you have a free slot you can built up enemy of enemy by rivalling one of their rivals which will net you +20 relations after 20 month.
-Declaring war and taking provinces of your vassals rivals will also give you a minor boost to relations. the bonus vanishes quickly since it is two seperate modifiers that are ticking down but you can get around ~20-30 from that in the short run as well.

 

[xyra]

Also you can provide war funding. that lasts until the end of the war +1 day so you have exactly one day to use it-> +10
Defend their country by sieging a rebeled province -> +10 i think

but the only thing you have to do is wait 20 years (you can start a new annexation about 19 years later though as the modifier resets if there hasn't been an annexation for 20 years, even if there is an ongoing annexation)

 

[InnocentIII]

I annex mine in batches. "Will the class of 1523 please step forward to receive your degrees?" In my last couple games I've been very fortunate having those +5 guys available.

 

[Bibor]

I've gotten myself in the awkward position of having 3 virtually un-annexable vassals with large, slowly decreasing negatives. Since I'm annexing other vassals regularly, the increases in negatives for that will continue to outweigh the slow increases, and I don't think enough positives exist to counter the negatives. Since I am not going for a world conquest, two of the nations represent mainly an aesthetic problem. But the third sits squarely in the way of further conquest (of course I can go through it, but it is getting in the way of connected provinces for coring). I'm Russia and that nation is an Nagoi, expanded by feeding them provinces before I realized they were un-annexable. Currently they have -20 religion, -15 CB, and 1112 annexed vassals. The last will grow soon as another vassal is scheduled for annexation.

Any solutions to this that I am missing?

If the vassal has cores somewhere, it will get you a huge bonus for "liberation", per province. I think its +60, decay -1 per annum. That's the only way you can do it. Neat trick: leave those vassals for last that you can liberate provinces to. 3-4 provinces will get you out of any minus. Examples: Syria, Mamelukes, Lithuania etc.

 

[Demusch]

As has already been said, don't annex vassals one at a time, annex them in groups. Also gives you some time to let AE cool down, build some buildings etc.

 

[Bibor]

As has already been said, don't annex vassals one at a time, annex them in groups. Also gives you some time to let AE cool down, build some buildings etc.

Indeed.

 

[Xara]

The penalty goes away after 20 years of having not reset the timer on it, no matter how high it got stacked, no matter what its currently at.

 

[meertn]

The penalty goes away after 20 years of having not reset the timer on it, no matter how high it got stacked, no matter what its currently at.

This is good to know, is this the case with any relation penalty or bonus that decays over time?

 

[gaius valerius]

It disappears completely? So basically if you can survive 20 years of coalition wars (for example) you're in the clear?

 

[grisamentum]

Also you could try finishing Religious ideas or otherwise improving your "better relations over time" so that the number drops to a manageable level faster.

 

[Xara]

This is good to know, is this the case with any relation penalty or bonus that decays over time?

It happens to "annexed a vassal" for other vassals and for "annexed a member of the HRE" for everyone in the HRE. Beyond that, no, I don't think so. If you go 20 years without repeating that action, its erased. Thus, do your annexations in as big a batch as you can, up to number-of-diplomats -1. And you can use your last diplomat to start another one just as the others are finishing.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Thanks guys. Much helpful advice. In the short run, I think the "wait 20 years and it will go away" option will be best for me. In the longer run some of the other advice will help. Though with (soon) 8 diplo slots, I have a suspicion that, even following it, I may run into some problems down the line.