Ultimatums

[unmerged(11148)]

Not sure if this can be done or what to put the suggestion.

Is it possible for moders or Johan to have Ultimatums put into the game? I noticed in this game and HOI that they are missing and they are very important tool of diplomacy.

First of all it allows for unallied but interested parties to help stop wars or to join in.

Diplomacy is fun but it would be more realistic if there was a way to threaten war to force a country to follow a certain action.

What do you all think?

 

[Grosshaus]

I'm not sure of Johan, but at least the modders can't --> thread moved

 

[EUnderhill]

Not sure if this can be done or what to put the suggestion.

Is it possible for moders or Johan to have Ultimatums put into the game? I noticed in this game and HOI that they are missing and they are very important tool of diplomacy.

First of all it allows for unallied but interested parties to help stop wars or to join in.

Diplomacy is fun but it would be more realistic if there was a way to threaten war to force a country to follow a certain action.

What do you all think?

Is this not what the "Guarantee Independence" is about?

 

[Kriegsspieler]

Is this not what the "Guarantee Independence" is about?

Well, now that you mention it, it has never been clear to me just what the consequences of "guarantee independence" are for gameplay. I you try to annex a country with such a guarantee, does it cause the guarantor to declare war?
But in any case, I do not think that the "guarantee independence" function would entirely meet the need described by RCBricker. I can imagine ultimatums occurring for any of several instances that would not involve conquering and swallowing another power. Say Germany wants France to cede Alsace and Lorraine to it -- that might be an occasion for an ultimatum. Or the war almost fought over the western boudary between the US and Canada, which is simulated in the game by an ultimatum-like event. Again, I'm not sure that a guarantee of independence would effectively simulate that situation.

 

[unmerged(24512)]

Well, now that you mention it, it has never been clear to me just what the consequences of "guarantee independence" are for gameplay. I you try to annex a country with such a guarantee, does it cause the guarantor to declare war?

No, a guarantee of independence functions as a one-sided defense pact. If you guarantee the independence of denmark, and someone attacks denmark, they will ask you to honor your guarantee of independence, and if you do, you'll get dragged into the war as if in alliance with denmark, with them as alliance leader.

 

[unmerged(11874)]

An ultimatum system would've been excellent.

 

[unmerged(27373)]

Well, now that you mention it, it has never been clear to me just what the consequences of "guarantee independence" are for gameplay. I you try to annex a country with such a guarantee, does it cause the guarantor to declare war?
But in any case, I do not think that the "guarantee independence" function would entirely meet the need described by RCBricker. I can imagine ultimatums occurring for any of several instances that would not involve conquering and swallowing another power. Say Germany wants France to cede Alsace and Lorraine to it -- that might be an occasion for an ultimatum. Or the war almost fought over the western boudary between the US and Canada, which is simulated in the game by an ultimatum-like event. Again, I'm not sure that a guarantee of independence would effectively simulate that situation.

Guarantees are your friend if you are into world conquest. Without guarantees, you can't conquer as fast.

AI do dishonour guarantee if odds are pretty lopsided though. UK start to dishonour guarantee later when it was down to like 6 provinces or something. For shame.

Throwing a guarantee on a weaker nation, if you're strong, can often deter others from DoW that weaker nation. Doesn't work 100%.

 

[Waffen9999]

Ultimatums would be nice. "Cease fighting or I declare war" that would be good stuff.

 

[unmerged(4253)]

The "Demand cessasion of colonisalism" diplomatic option is an ultimatum, except of course I don't know if anything bad happens to those who refuse. Proclaim gaurantee is also annother form of Ultimatum. I guess a third form might be to exchange land, tech, or money for non-agression pacts similar to the peace treaty that's made after a war... maybe the vicky engine could do it, I have no idea. All three of those things combined, ultimatums would more or less be part of gameplay, AI and human alike.

 

[unmerged(10564)]

Having ultimata would be awesome!

This way you can prevent other nations (or they can prevent you) of further nasty consequences if they insist on heading on in certain direction.

I like the idea of "I demand you to move your armies from XXX otherwise I'll declare war upon you)

 

[Darkrenown]

Sometimes I use the neville cheat for ultimatums. Only when i feel it's realistic though, e.g. When my military rating is 10 times theres and for some reason I don't feel like going to war.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

I suppose two other interesting ultimatum options would be "become my satellite or I declare war" and "demobolize your army or I declare war"

 

[berhaven]

Well, the diplo system of Vicki already includes some kind of ultimatums, and many more are done through events (think of the Slevig questions for istance).
I even think something could be modded in order to act in a more general terms, at least with respect of major wars.

I think the flavour that is missing is the escalation concept, or crisis management, not uncommon in the days.
Again most of it can be done (and it is often done in VIP) by modding.

 

[unmerged(11148)]

escalationis it. Wonder if modders or Johan and the crew can add it. I think it would be great if you added a prestige value to it. Kinda like playing poker.. Keep throwing money into the pot and see who folds. Or worse comes to worse call your opponents bluff and see who wins the pot. As the crisis excalates there is an excalation of the prestige value.