Ukranian Focus Tree

[Aeroclub]

I dont see how this is problematic in terms of what I said. Just have new releasable nations that share cores with other nations. Multiple regions in the game already do this so its not like some unheard of thing. Its relatively easy to change and theyve modified it multiple times in the past.

The problem is defining the borders of these releasable nations. I mean, let's get back to the question of Ukraine: what, exactly, is the Ukraine that you want to release? Is it the Ukrainian SFR circa 1936, is it the present day nation-state (i.e. the same but with Crimea), or is it something along the borders of Zaporozhian Sich or Hetmanate?

For other releaseables, in general there are two approaches: one is to use internal administrative borders (like with Yugoslavia), and that is fine for the nations that hadn't existed as nation-states before. The other one is more or less arbitrary like with Byzantium, and that is fine, well, because it's a pure fantasy anyway.

But for Ukraine, the question in the beginning is sensitive, it is important, it matters for obvious reasons.

 

[Andrew0Red]

The problem is defining the borders of these releasable nations. I mean, let's get back to the question of Ukraine: what, exactly, is the Ukraine that you want to release? Is it the Ukrainian SFR circa 1936, is it the present day nation-state (i.e. the same but with Crimea), or is it something along the borders of Zaporozhian Sich or Hetmanate?

For other releaseables, in general there are two approaches: one is to use internal administrative borders (like with Yugoslavia), and that is fine for the nations that hadn't existed as nation-states before. The other one is more or less arbitrary like with Byzantium, and that is fine, well, because it's a pure fantasy anyway.

But for Ukraine, the question in the beginning is sensitive, it is important, it matters for obvious reasons.

There is also the old problem with countries that share cores: I, Germany, would like to release Checkia, Zechie, oh-I-give-up, Tjekkia, but I don't want to give it any of my cores. And what about releasing Italy? It's quite possible I'm playing some kind of nationalist Germany (often fascist nazi-Germany, but, say, an un-aligned or democratic natiol-democratic Germany might also be), and depending on how nationalistic I wish to roleplay it and what my vies on the matter are, I might prefer to keep Südtyrol in Germany, even if it never is a german core in-game. And maybe even keep Istria too (or is that only Yugoslavian?).

It would be nice to be able to choose which states were released...

 

[jacekgk]

I want a Ukranian Focus Tree., thanks

I see no point for that. Historically, Ukraine does not exist as an independent/ puppet country before and during WWII - I mean, it was Ukraine SSSR, but in that cause PDX should do focus trees for all soviets republics? No realistically.
Technically, I see a tons of disatvantages:
- if You want to realise Ukraine, You should kill Stalin and put Trotsky or Romanovs in charge to balkanize Your country. Or defeat USSR and get Ukraine freedom. This is something AI never does, this is not a Vichy France, witch is almost certain, if You play on historical focuses on and not as France. In my opinion: too much work for a just few players, who want these kind of shenanigans;
- remember, that we don't have Egypt and other british colonies as a playable countries from the start, because this made a totally mess with AI behaviour on african theatre. I cannot imagine, how huge chaos will be, if we get Ukraine on the probably most important front during WWII.

IRL - there would be too many references to the current situation.

Still it is possible to play as Ukraine thanks mods.

 

[Glassius]

Historically, Ukraine does not exist as an independent/ puppet country before and during WWII - I mean, it was Ukraine SSSR

It was not only SSSR.
1. Poland was hosting Government-in-exile of the Ukrainian National Republic, which was a legal continuation of Ukrainian People's Republic (1917-1920)
2. Czechoslovakia was giving to Ukrainians in Carpathian Ruthenia quite a lot of freedom, including universities teaching in Ukrainian: Ukrainian Free University in Prague and Ukrainian School of Economy in Poděbrady.
3. During Barbarossa Ukrainians were fighting Soviet Union and established Ukrainian national government, which lasted 7 days. They asked Germany for protection, but were ignored.

Just in case Ukraine would receive some love from developers I want community to get involved in it. Dev diaries for Poland were issued in very late state of development, so developers did not have time to fix mistakes. I am not talking about meme paths, but ahistorical start of the game: saying high food prices and poor infrastructure caused peasant urprising or about embargoed economy.

I hope possible future Ukrainian lore would be more history friendly, that's why it is good idea to discuss it.

 

[safe-keeper]

Why should Ukraine get one? Considering no releasable nation has a tree and releasing it just messes with the AI and the flow of the eastern front where arguably the core of the game happens.

 

[safe-keeper]

I want a Ukranian Focus Tree., thanks. No reason to carry on really about it either.

Pure and Simple for free. I mean... we have a Latvian and Lithuanian Tree ....

If current events are anything to go by, they need a national spirit that gives them a hefty bonus to equipment capture. Invading armies get popups about farmers with tractors towing their tanks, APCs, and armoured cars.

 

[CrasherZZ]

If Ukraine has a unique focus tree then I bet she would be the most played nation.

It will happen if it's very profitable for Paradox, although we wouldn't want to give Putin a pretext for invading Sweden.

 

[Andrew0Red]

although we wouldn't want to give Putin a pretext for invading Sweden.

1: It's not as if he wouldn't just make one up.

2: Speak for yourself.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

*snip

Give Belarus one too see as its just as important and see how much faster the Germans are in Vladivostok when both nations will struggle to produce more than 20 inf divisions.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

It is a funny question, because you answered yourself in the next sentence. I guess you wanted to ask "why releasing it at all?".


As you noticed, releasing Ukraine messes up the most important front of the WW2. This is why, Ukraine and Belarus should be railroaded to give it at least some credibility.

I ask because i dont know what anyone would get from playing Ukraine that you wouldn't already get from playing the Soviet Union which already has cores over both it and Belarus.

 

[GrandVezir]

Give Belarus one too see as its just as important and see how much faster the Germans are in Vladivostok when both nations will struggle to produce more than 20 inf divisions.

Of course, take away the high-value cores in Ukraine and Belarus and the Germans might just have to drive all the way to Vladivostok to get enough VPs to cap the truncated Soviets.

 

[Glassius]

I ask because i dont know what anyone would get from playing Ukraine that you wouldn't already get from playing the Soviet Union which already has cores over both it and Belarus.

It's the most British thing I've read in this forum Like drawing borders on map using ruler or giving catridges preserved by cow/pig fat for muslim and hindu

Sorry, but explaining it for you would stop you from being so British

 

[Cpt.Cross]

It's the most British thing I've read in this forum Like drawing borders on map using ruler or giving catridges preserved by cow/pig fat for muslim and hindu

Sorry, but explaining it for you would stop you from being so British

I'm not sure how to take that assessment. but if we are mentioning India would you also like Princely States all playable? Or is it not better to have all Raj together for pretty borders and stable fronts in the Raj for the occasional time when a front opens up there. Its an abstraction for the sake of gameplay,

 

[Glassius]

would you also like Princely States all playable?

It would not bother me. If people want it and are asking for it, so Paradox may make money of it, why not?

BTW, I would gladly play as Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja from Nawanagar. He has a special place in Polish hearts

 

[Cpt.Cross]

It would not bother me. If people want it and are asking for it, so Paradox may make money of it, why not?

BTW, I would gladly play as Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja from Nawanagar. He has a special place in Polish hearts

Sounds Lagtastic

Just play Poland then release and play as Ukraine, Join Axis and fight Sov with Germany for the rest of your cores back. Thats as interesting as it will get.

 

[Glassius]

As long as historical AI is enabled, there should be no lag problems by playable releasables.

Also, historical Poland has no plausible reason to release Ukraine. Historicaly, Poland tried to assimilate them, just as Czechoslovakia/Soviet Union/Hungary. And if released to full indepence, they are communist :/

There are gameplay reasons, but those are more like exploits
1. It shortens front. Hungary and Romania can't attack. AI is not capable to declare war on puppet even if it is fighting its master.
2. Releasable Ukraine has almost no other neighbours, so civilian factories are given back when Ukraine trades for steel.
3. If released with Belarus and Vilnius, it blocks Soviet Union from justyfing by focus. They have to make normal justyfying little later. Even if they justify, they are doing it on Poland clay and ignore puppets, so it again a shorten front.

 

[Spyseand]

just make/get a mod for a ukraine tree. considering that a country like italy still doesn't have a tree along with a lot of starting free nations, ukraine tree likely won't happen in hoi4 (save for modding obviously)

 

[DerGrößteRitter]

It would not bother me. If people want it and are asking for it, so Paradox may make money of it, why not?

BTW, I would gladly play as Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja from Nawanagar. He has a special place in Polish hearts

who?

 

[Glassius]

who?

He was quite important Maharaja who gave shelter for 600 Polish children, refugees escaping Soviet Union. His name is considered very hard to remember, so Poles are calling him "Good Maharaja"

 

[Louella]

He was quite important Maharaja who gave shelter for 600 Polish children, refugees escaping Soviet Union. His name is considered very hard to remember, so Poles are calling him "Good Maharaja"

Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting person.