Part 1: Ukraine, Bielarus and West Russia.
Let's start from Ruthenian lands first:
If you look at new AoW map, you can notice significant changes to the Far East, Asia Minor, Persia and even Africa. Some of named territories were "uncivilized" talking Victoria's II
language and some weren't even colonized till XIX century. But still they got their deserved map fixes and I doubt anyone would complain about it.
Now let's look at Eastern European territories and /facepalm: huge provinces (2x-5x of Western European provinces size) with mediocre basetax. While BT is a debatable value, the provinces' detalization seems completely lackluster and inaccurate. The reason of such huge provinces in Eastern Euope is simple: PIs mapmakers opened a few historical maps of that era and saw that the lowest administrative unit is a "voyevodstvo" or "knyazhesvo" (grand duchy or grand principality). But it's a huge mistake to make provinces of former grand principalities in a way you could make huge provinces in US region out of states. I can advocate for Ukrainian territories mostly because the history of my land is a hobby since i was 9 years old, but Bielorussian, Lithuanian and Western Russian territories are also detailed quite poorly.
Historical maps of Ukraine on Wiki
Let's look at the map I've provided starting from the West:
Now it's Bielarussian provinces turn:
Russian provinces like Smolensk, Kursk and Voronezh are way too large even compared to Moscow, Ryazan, Suzdal and Murom. I need a bit more time to collect data about more possible provinces in that region. Southern Black Sea steppes are now much more detailed than much more populated than Ukrainian and Bielarussian provinces. I bet their base tax and supply limit has been tweaked to balance the region, but now Polltava, Mogilev and Minsk provinces look way too overbloated.
Part 2:
Zaporozhian host.
In EU4 Zaporozhian Cossacks are Christian Tartars with Horde ideas and Nomad tech group. Primary culture in provinces is Ruthenian. This is the worst ahistorical nonsense I've ever heared, alongside with Mason Order plots and Aztecks invading Europe (hi, CK2!).
Part 3:
Forming Ukraine and it's NI's
Khmelnytsky's Cossacks Uprisings have started a process of forming Ukraine as an independent state. A powerful shakeup in Ruthenian mentality allowed to build a foundation for a futureUkrainian nation and state. In EU4 when Zaporozhian host declares war for independance Ukrainian nationalists are hostile to Zaporozhian regiments which is completely absurd. Moreover, if Zaporozhians break free, they get no cores in Ruthenian provinces and the cultural shift from Tartar culture doesn't solve any problem.
My suggestion are:
Part 4:
I can't understand why did PI name Ukrainian provinces with Russian names? I guess it would be odd if Irish provinces were named in French or Prussian provinces in Polish.
Part 5:
Ruthenian territories were under PLC's control for a long time, but Ruthenian culture and Orthodox religion weren't accepted by PLC that has led to series of devastating uprisings and finally weakened Rzeczpospolita to a pont where Sweden, Austria nad Rusia have almost destroyed the PLC and annexed it step by step.
The solution would be to give PLC an event or decision to acceprt Ruthenian culture and religion and form a Three Nations Commonwealth. As a requirement should be a fully unlocked Humanism Ideas tree, Stability at least 3 and Legitimacy at least 80. As a consequence there should be Stability, Legitimacy and Papal Influence drop alongside with a period of Polish, Lithuanian and Catholic\Protestant uprisings.
Historically it was a Treaty of Hadyach
For those who are going to accuse me in nationalism: I'm just trying to help PI make a historically accurate game. I guess there is no wonder that a Ukarainian citizen knows history and geography of his homeland better than other lands. That's it. =)
Sources:
Mercator Map of Europe 1596
Moses Pitt: Typus Generalis Ukrainae sive Palatinatuum Podoliae, Kioviensis et Braczlaviensis terras nova delineatione exhibens A map before Khmelnytsky's Uprisings.
Van Schagen Europe (1689). The map after Pereyaslav Rada when Khmelnytsky signed a treaty with Muscovian Tsar.
Polonia and Lithuania at the time of Augustus II the Strong (1670-1733) modern map of PLC.
And the most understandable map for majority of forum users:
Poland and Lithuania 1386-1434
UPD: For any kind or Russian\USSR or pro-Russian\USSR patriots, nationalists, imperialists or communists: if you want to say something about "artificially created state or language", "smallrussia", "novorussia" and same sort of propaganda, please step forward to another threads. This thread is meant to make Eastern European region more historically accurate and detailed. Most input from Russian comments is negative attitude to the whole thread; total nihilism, ignorance and disrespect towards history that only dispaly your low literacy and culture.
Please, feel free to add comments about geography, topography or demography of Russian, Ukrainian\Ruthenian, Moldvian, Lithuanian and Polish provinces to make it easier for PI to sort and process all our data provided.
Let's start from Ruthenian lands first:
If you look at new AoW map, you can notice significant changes to the Far East, Asia Minor, Persia and even Africa. Some of named territories were "uncivilized" talking Victoria's II
language and some weren't even colonized till XIX century. But still they got their deserved map fixes and I doubt anyone would complain about it.
Now let's look at Eastern European territories and /facepalm: huge provinces (2x-5x of Western European provinces size) with mediocre basetax. While BT is a debatable value, the provinces' detalization seems completely lackluster and inaccurate. The reason of such huge provinces in Eastern Euope is simple: PIs mapmakers opened a few historical maps of that era and saw that the lowest administrative unit is a "voyevodstvo" or "knyazhesvo" (grand duchy or grand principality). But it's a huge mistake to make provinces of former grand principalities in a way you could make huge provinces in US region out of states. I can advocate for Ukrainian territories mostly because the history of my land is a hobby since i was 9 years old, but Bielorussian, Lithuanian and Western Russian territories are also detailed quite poorly.
Historical maps of Ukraine on Wiki
Let's look at the map I've provided starting from the West:
- Maramos: 1 Uzhgorod/Ungvar and 2 Khust
- Ruthenia: 3 Lviv, 4 Stanislav, 5 Chern
- Zhytomyr: 6 Ovruch and 7 Zhytomyr
- Volhynia: 8 Zbarazh and 9 Lutsk
- Novgorod-Severkiy: 10 Novgorod-Siverskiy and 11 Putyvl
- Cherkasy: 12 Cherkasy and 13 Chyhyryn
- Poltava: 14 Poltava and 15 Kremenchug
- Kiev: 16 Kyiv and 17 Oster
- Bratslav: 18 Bratslav and 19 Vinnytsya
Now it's Bielarussian provinces turn:
- Mogilev: 1 Mogilev, 2 Mstislavl and 3 Krichev
- Minsk: 4 Minsk and 5 Gomel
- Turov: 6 Turov and 7 Slutsk
- Pinsk: 8 Pinsk and 9 Kobrin (messed up a bit with borders :sad
- Grodno: 10 Grodno and 11 Slonim
- Polotsk: 12 Polotsk and 13 Vitebsk
Russian provinces like Smolensk, Kursk and Voronezh are way too large even compared to Moscow, Ryazan, Suzdal and Murom. I need a bit more time to collect data about more possible provinces in that region. Southern Black Sea steppes are now much more detailed than much more populated than Ukrainian and Bielarussian provinces. I bet their base tax and supply limit has been tweaked to balance the region, but now Polltava, Mogilev and Minsk provinces look way too overbloated.
Part 2:
Zaporozhian host.
In EU4 Zaporozhian Cossacks are Christian Tartars with Horde ideas and Nomad tech group. Primary culture in provinces is Ruthenian. This is the worst ahistorical nonsense I've ever heared, alongside with Mason Order plots and Aztecks invading Europe (hi, CK2!).
- First of all, Zaporozhian Cossacks were anything but Tartars or Turks, especially in their early days. Crimean Tartars were a disaster for all their non-Muslim neighbors, causing havoc with their raids. Most Cossacks were former serfs, outlaws or outcasts that either escaped from their landlords or just hid from jail. They built fortresses called "sich", most famous of them was Zaporozhian Sich, and weren't nomads by any means. Funniest things about Zaporozhian Cossacks is that they can reform to Muslim (!!!) tech group and sometimes their monarch can spawn from different Muslim dynasties (like Bayda Aq-Quyunlu).
- The second important note is that Zaporozhye was a kind of Noble Republic:
- All government has been chosen by Cossacks' Rada (any Cossack could participate in voting) that could be assembled any time, should there be any reason. IMHO EU4 closest government type is Noble Republic.
- The final argument about Cossacks belonging to Easter European tech group is that... Cossacks have no Cossacks units and their only infantry are archers=)))
Part 3:
Forming Ukraine and it's NI's
Khmelnytsky's Cossacks Uprisings have started a process of forming Ukraine as an independent state. A powerful shakeup in Ruthenian mentality allowed to build a foundation for a futureUkrainian nation and state. In EU4 when Zaporozhian host declares war for independance Ukrainian nationalists are hostile to Zaporozhian regiments which is completely absurd. Moreover, if Zaporozhians break free, they get no cores in Ruthenian provinces and the cultural shift from Tartar culture doesn't solve any problem.
My suggestion are:
- Allow to form Cossack Hetmanate from Zaporozhye + at least 3 Ruthenian provinces. Government type: Noble Republic; Tech group: Eastern. NIs should vary around cavalry cost and combat ability, cheaper infantry (Khmelnytsky managed to gather around 200k armies in XVII century), some kind of republican traditions bonuses, goods produced (Ukraine was a breadbasket for Muscovy\Russia and PLC) or even increased cavalry ratio.
- Allow to form Ukraine from Cossack Hetmanate + 6 Ruthenian provinces. Same ideas as Cossack Hetmanate, maybe with some trade replacements.
- Script Zaporozhia to spawn in XVI century (alike USA does in NA) under certain circumstances in Ironman mode from 1444 start.
Part 4:
I can't understand why did PI name Ukrainian provinces with Russian names? I guess it would be odd if Irish provinces were named in French or Prussian provinces in Polish.
- Kiev = Kyiv
- Chernigov = Chernigiv
- Podolia = Podillya
- Novgorod-Severskiy = Novgorod-Siverskiy
Part 5:
Ruthenian territories were under PLC's control for a long time, but Ruthenian culture and Orthodox religion weren't accepted by PLC that has led to series of devastating uprisings and finally weakened Rzeczpospolita to a pont where Sweden, Austria nad Rusia have almost destroyed the PLC and annexed it step by step.
The solution would be to give PLC an event or decision to acceprt Ruthenian culture and religion and form a Three Nations Commonwealth. As a requirement should be a fully unlocked Humanism Ideas tree, Stability at least 3 and Legitimacy at least 80. As a consequence there should be Stability, Legitimacy and Papal Influence drop alongside with a period of Polish, Lithuanian and Catholic\Protestant uprisings.
Historically it was a Treaty of Hadyach
For those who are going to accuse me in nationalism: I'm just trying to help PI make a historically accurate game. I guess there is no wonder that a Ukarainian citizen knows history and geography of his homeland better than other lands. That's it. =)
Sources:
Mercator Map of Europe 1596
Moses Pitt: Typus Generalis Ukrainae sive Palatinatuum Podoliae, Kioviensis et Braczlaviensis terras nova delineatione exhibens A map before Khmelnytsky's Uprisings.
Van Schagen Europe (1689). The map after Pereyaslav Rada when Khmelnytsky signed a treaty with Muscovian Tsar.
Polonia and Lithuania at the time of Augustus II the Strong (1670-1733) modern map of PLC.
And the most understandable map for majority of forum users:
Poland and Lithuania 1386-1434
UPD: For any kind or Russian\USSR or pro-Russian\USSR patriots, nationalists, imperialists or communists: if you want to say something about "artificially created state or language", "smallrussia", "novorussia" and same sort of propaganda, please step forward to another threads. This thread is meant to make Eastern European region more historically accurate and detailed. Most input from Russian comments is negative attitude to the whole thread; total nihilism, ignorance and disrespect towards history that only dispaly your low literacy and culture.
Please, feel free to add comments about geography, topography or demography of Russian, Ukrainian\Ruthenian, Moldvian, Lithuanian and Polish provinces to make it easier for PI to sort and process all our data provided.
Last edited:
- 15
- 2
- 2
