UK = Paper tiger in HoD?

[blaidd]

In 3.01, in my kleindeutschland game, I was allied with the UK, and they NEVER helped in a land war in Europe
In my 3.02 beta Grossedeutschland game, during the Franco-Prussian War, the UK did help, landing 100k troops in northern France

That's because in 3.02b they added a strait crossing in the channel. Assuming the channel doesn't get blocked by an enemy fleet, the British can now march their entire mobilized Irish doomstack into Europe. The most I've seen so far was ~200+ brigades.

You can also use this to invade more easily if you can dispose of the Royal Navy.

I think that makes sense. You don't need intercontinental transport ships to get across the channel IF there is no navy to stop you. Commandeered fishing boats or whatever. Napoleon was going to do it with glorified rafts.

 

[Mikeboy]

I think every Vicky1 player prayed for this day to come, when the blob of the British is somehow balanced with the rest of the board, and can be struck down on occasion.

Trouble is real life Britain was OP. If I don't fear it in game then you're not accurately creating the Victorian era.

 

[Beagá]

That's because in 3.02b they added a strait crossing in the channel. Assuming the channel doesn't get blocked by an enemy fleet, the British can now march their entire mobilized Irish doomstack into Europe. The most I've seen so far was ~200+ brigades.

You can also use this to invade more easily if you can dispose of the Royal Navy.

I think that makes sense. You don't need intercontinental transport ships to get across the channel IF there is no navy to stop you. Commandeered fishing boats or whatever. Napoleon was going to do it with glorified rafts.

France beats UK 1vs1. Simple, UK spread stacks across the whole globe, while France concentrates force. Result, stacks that cross the channel are destroyed, one after the other.

Also, noticed an hilarious pattern. Prussia allies with Netherlands in 1836 and ALWAYS manages to help Netherlands nom nom nom Belgium and then white peace with the UK (through that takes varying amounts of time). So, for those who want to eat Belgium ASAP, ally with Prussia, if the AI can annex Belgium in 1837 so can you

 

[jack-wei]

Trouble is real life Britain was OP. If I don't fear it in game then you're not accurately creating the Victorian era.

Yes but on Continental Europe France arguably had the best army in the 19th century until 1871 when Prussia/Germany took over from them and remember the UK's power was based on its global economic and naval dominance, even though Britain's manpower was mainly used in India for affairs in Asia.

The Crimean War proved that France was the dominant military power on mainland Europe as it regained its reputation it had lost after their last defeat of Napoleon I at Waterloo 1815, also we seem to forget there were many naval races between France and the UK in the 19th century although the UK come out on top as always in that area but France proved she was still a formidable power to be reckoned with until later with the arrival of Germany.

Although the UK didn't defeat a great power on its own as that was tested during the American War of Independence which didn't work out.

In many ways HoD does portray the UK very accurately during the 19th century however that fate is in your hands.

 

[Kimberly]

Yes but on Continental Europe France arguably had the best army in the 19th century until 1871 when Prussia/Germany took over from them and remember the UK's power was based on its global economic and naval dominance, even though Britain's manpower was mainly used in India for affairs in Asia.

The Crimean War proved that France was the dominant military power on mainland Europe as it regained its reputation it had lost after their last defeat of Napoleon I at Waterloo 1815, also we seem to forget there were many naval races between France and the UK in the 19th century although the UK come out on top as always in that area but France proved she was still a formidable power to be reckoned with until later with the arrival of Germany.

Although the UK didn't defeat a great power on its own as that was tested during the American War of Independence which didn't work out.

In many ways HoD does portray the UK very accurately during the 19th century however that fate is in your hands.

I fought a war over Canada (almost all of it) against the UK as the United States. The land battles went pretty well, with the UK being strong and numerically superior. They were also very reluctant to give up, even when I had occupied all my war goals; they were willing to drag the war out for eight years. But the main problem was that they barely made use of their navy; I beat one small stack of warships, and for the rest they just sent transports to reinforce Canada, which I could pick off easily. The UK works well in most ways, except for its naval power.

 

[jack-wei]

I fought a war over Canada (almost all of it) against the UK as the United States. The land battles went pretty well, with the UK being strong and numerically superior. They were also very reluctant to give up, even when I had occupied all my war goals; they were willing to drag the war out for eight years. But the main problem was that they barely made use of their navy; I beat one small stack of warships, and for the rest they just sent transports to reinforce Canada, which I could pick off easily. The UK works well in most ways, except for its naval power.

Yes that needs to be sorted out and worked upon as i have seen transports only too, but at least the UK can be defeated this time around as by the 1860s i can fend off the UK and CSA at the same time if i have a large enough army and the research those ironclads/monitors early as the US.

 

[unmerged(173313)]

In my 3.01 game, Britain has actually taken Normandy from France somehow. Just throwing that out there.

 

[AdeptusM]

France is vulnerable to a sudden attack early in the game. It's their late tech and pop boon / soldiers that make it a monster.

edit- But back on topic, I've found Britain only defends India with ~ 80K troops. A few good doomstacks from Asia should be able to knock them off the continent.

 

[Beagá]

And their generals.

In my Netherlands game they had a 3+ attack... and +6 DEFENSE SOB. Also all countries are vulnearble early, apart from France, Russia and China.

 

[FOARP]

The problem with invasions sounds a lot like the HOI 3/Darkest Hour problem the Allies have getting back into Europe when under the AI. The British AI is reluctant to commit forces to the mainland and when they do the stronger land forces of Europe simply crush them and, as they have no retreat, they simply get wiped out.

Yeah, amphibious and naval AI is a problem in every single Paradox game. I'm not sure why this is - perhaps because it's just very difficult to code the computer to be aware of the kind of things it needs to be aware of without borders etc.

The one thing that gives me hope is the amphibious AI in CKII (at least playing now) seems somewhat less dumb.

 

[Director]

In my last game I watched the British and Prussians rumble with some minor countries added on both sides. Britain ended the war controlling the middle of Prussia from the water to Austria. (Of course thay gave it back in peace, but to see all those red stripes was amazing). Currently I'm watching the beat-up Ottomans (now 81st rank) take out British possessions in Yemen, Oman and Hedjaz. So I would say that Briain's land performance varies - but it can be awesomely powerful.

 

[rossBurglar]

So I would say that Briain's land performance varies - but it can be awesomely powerful.

So pretty much the UK ~1066-present? Blenheim, Plains of Abraham, Douro, Vimeiro, Balaklava, Marne, Caen vs Caen, Marne, Balaklava, Roliça, Plattsburgh, Yorktown

It isn't powerful enough in current HoD, but I love how unpredictable the capability of the British Army is. Hate how terrible the RN is, but that's a different issue

 

[SovietCyborg]

Britain's own Empire was its biggest weakness. The British Empire was foremost a trading bloc. Hard to defend, fatal to lose. In Africa and India the safety of British colonies depended on Russia's and France's goodwill. It was the loss of India, which most of its structure was based on, that ultimately doomed and finished the British Empire. The power of Britain was never in its army, it was in its navy and Britain's ability to form balances of powers throught third powers.

 

[Morgothic]

Britain's own Empire was its biggest weakness. The British Empire was foremost a trading bloc. Hard to defend, fatal to lose. In Africa and India the safety of British colonies depended on Russia's and France's goodwill. It was the loss of India, which most of its structure was based on, that ultimately doomed and finished the British Empire. The power of Britain was never in its army, it was in its navy and Britain's ability to form balances of powers throught third powers.

But that's not to say it had a particularly bad army.

Or an army with 1/3 stationed in Ireland.

 

[jack-wei]

Britain's own Empire was its biggest weakness. The British Empire was foremost a trading bloc. Hard to defend, fatal to lose. In Africa and India the safety of British colonies depended on Russia's and France's goodwill. It was the loss of India, which most of its structure was based on, that ultimately doomed and finished the British Empire. The power of Britain was never in its army, it was in its navy and Britain's ability to form balances of powers throught third powers.

That is why i keep thinking even if the UK helped the CSA later in the American Civil War then Canada would of been lost, famine could occur in the UK due to the Union supplying most of its grain, also i doubt the Royal Navy would try to intercept the US ironclads at close range despite the few Warrior Class ships the UK had, there would be civil unrest in Ireland and Scotland, the Union fielded the largest army in the world by 1864 and if the war went on longer then the Gatling gun would of been put to good use too probably.

 

[Emperor Hans]

I only see England ever do well in India where they expand like cockroaches and expanding colonies, for the rest they don't do shit.

 

[airpirate]

Britain is stationing way too many soldiers in the colonies, I just saw all of Britain get completely overrun by France while around 100 British brigades sat in India. Also, Britain's navy needs some serious buffing. Foreign troops landing in the British isles should be a very rare occurrence.

 

[unmerged(376721)]

I am giving the UK a try at the moment (3.02). The year is 1853.

The UK is incredibly powerful, only at if one know how to use the Royal Navy properly. But still, the UK started with many hidden disadvantages.

1. The game starts where the UK is almost already at their ship supply throughput limit. So the player gotta fanatically upgrade ports all over the world.
2. The UK started with something like 24 clipper transports only. A round trip to India takes 1 ½ year or so with plenty of attrition. So the best opening move a player can do is to humiliate Panjab. And then march the Indian Armies to home islands. I moved 40 brigades or so this way to Europe. Take around 1 year, more effective than using transport, no attrition too. But surely this is an exploit.
3. With 50-60 brigades at Europe, it is fun time bullying everyone. With the strait added, there are now 2 meat grinders; the Channel Islands and Canterbury. Bait the AIs (French, Australian, German, everyone) and use RN as blockage. UK’s army tech sucks big time, and the RN is only marginally better than French. Gotta use numerical superiority properly. This is what the AIs most lacking.

Even so, after the NGF formed in 1840s, I can feel the underlying inferiority.
1. My population size is 9x the NGF, but they can form 95 brigades compare to my 150. NGF’s and France also able to mobilize much more.
2. My literacy sucks big time, causing me to divert all early tech attention to cultural techs.
3. By 1853, the industry score is already parallel between the UK and the NGF. AI UK usually manages to hang on the no. 1 in industry score till the 60s or 70s by fanatically NI craftsmen only, thus neglecting both admin and education, causing further long-term stagnation.
4. The underlying colonial point system penalized the UK too much. I mean, what the deal of New South Wales taking 2700 CP to turn into state (compare to more or less 1000 point for an average Africa province)? Pre-level 3 or 4 or even 5 port, there is no way to get that much points. The RN is already expensive to maintain as it is currently.

Without player intervention, the UK is likely to slip behind Germany, USA or even France by the turn of century in an average game, which makes me feel really sad, since the game is called Victoria II. It is my opinion that the UK need a little buffing.

 

[Beagá]

UK had less manpower than a totally formed Reich, unless you include the colonies. So it´s not unrealistic that will have a hard time fighting Germany 1vs1 on land. Add to that that the military tech will lag behind a bit due to their academy and literacy compared to Germany... Hell, didn´t even France had more manpower than UK if you count only Great Britain?

IMO NGF is forming too early however, and THAT´S the main balance problem the game has. Finally, the real limitation for state forming is having the accepted POPs, most of the time, not colonial points. If you think that with less colonies you can transform them all into states, do it - you will have industrial score from those states eventually. As I said in my assimilation thread, getting land in South America is worth it, don´t focus so much on colony grabbing.

 

[S0ny B1ack]

That's because in 3.02b they added a strait crossing in the channel. Assuming the channel doesn't get blocked by an enemy fleet, the British can now march their entire mobilized Irish doomstack into Europe. The most I've seen so far was ~200+ brigades.

You can also use this to invade more easily if you can dispose of the Royal Navy.

I think that makes sense. You don't need intercontinental transport ships to get across the channel IF there is no navy to stop you. Commandeered fishing boats or whatever. Napoleon was going to do it with glorified rafts.

IMHO the biggest problem with AI doomstacks is that it does not seem to care for attrition. In my Italy game i besieged 2 british colonies in south Africa and the british marched 66.000 soldier from north africa down through my colonies to reach the attacked area. I guess i don't have to go into deatail how that ended, i intercepted their army when they were down to 20k soldiers and basically eliminated all british resitance in Afrika with one very easy battle...