UK Industrial Strategy

[adski42]

I was hoping someone out there could give me some advice on playing as the UK after the last couple of patches and particularly regarding the starting industry strategy.


I’ve given it a couple of goes now:


Attempt one – having one civilian factory and at least one military factory being produced at any one time

Attempt two – only producing military factories


My issue is that I’m finding it incredibly hard to get much built, particularly that in order to build up any kind of significant fighter force takes a huge number of factores. I’m prioritising the RAF, but that doesn’t leave me with many factories to grow my army.


Your thoughts and opinions on a successful opening strategy would be much appreciated!

 

[PanzerMan7]

I've been mulling this one over. Now, I play multi exclusively so I'm looking for an efficient build. I think that NIC might be a good investment if only because it doesn't suffer from civilian economy. Alternatively, you could fort up suez and the Raj.

 

[Putuna]

This is from multiplayer perspective but I find that if you build too many MIC early on that it absolutely destroys your mid game were the UK is supposed to shine. I am still looking for the optimal build as the UK were I can have a nice airforce and have enough troops to stop a sealion which is WAY too easy. My current strategy is to monitor the German Airforce and The Hungarian Airforce. I try to have about the same amount of planes as Germany and Hungary. While doing that I try and build as many CIC as I can usually I have around 70ish by the time war starts. This allows me to explode mid and Late game.

 

[Novat]

The British industry has distinct and recognizable phases.

1. The initial build up of civilian factories. Lasting from 1936, to early 1938. I have experimented building civilian factories even longer, but this is only done if i am confident in the German players strategy. There are several things to keep in mind, and dangers to avoid. If you build for too long, and Germany starts the war early you will be at a serious disadvantage and you may get rolled over in Africa. If you build too few civilian factories, and Germany goes for a navy and a late war, you miss out on the mid game civilian build up as you may have to construct naval dockyards and pick naval focuses.

2. Following the first stage, you enter the military build up stage lasting until the outbreak of the war and then some more. My goal is to hit 60-70 military factories, before building more strategic buildings such as infrastructure, ports and air bases were they may be needed. I play on a server with the expanded air zone mod, so i always build up the air base in Marsa Matruth next to El-Alamein.

*Skip 3 if Germany does not go heavy on navy*
3. The next stage, you enter the second civilian build up stage. Where there is a period in which you are at war, but you lose very little equipment to conflict and attrition. If the German player expanded his navy, you are more or less forced to follow and construct more advanced carriers, airplanes to put on them and advanced destroyers to deal with submarines. The amount of dockyards necessary wary, but i aim for 30-45 total so you can get 2 carrier lvl 3s, followed by 2 carrier lvl 4s. Then pump out lvl 3 and lvl 4 destroyers, acquired with the tech bonus.

4. Then you enter the second civilian industry build up. With excavation 4 and 60 civilian factories, you will run out of factories to trade for resources at about 180 military factories. Even sooner if you're being forced to construct carriers at 5 steel a piece. So you need to increase your civilian industry, so you can trade for additional resources. Assuming you're out of steel and oil. You need to increase the civilian industry owned to about 75-85.

5. Just shit out military factories until the end of the game. Unsure what to make? Make lvl 3 guns and send surplus to your puppets and allies. No one will say no to lvl 3 guns.

 

[melkor88]

As the UK I only build CIC until Jan 1938, then only MIC & NIC after that. I find that works well as a lot of the military equipment you will build in the first couple of years will be so out of date by the start of the war it won't make much difference. And if you have spent a few years building up a lot of CIC then you can quickly mass produce MIC for the rest of the game.

 

[TK-XD-M8]

If this was Vic2 I'd say spam liquor...but since it's HOI4 it's a bit out of my depth.

 

[Dan1109]

You 'should' receive LL from the USA, don't count that out. USA gave roughly half of the tanks it produced via LL, 33 of that 50% to the UK alone.

 

[adski42]

Thanks for your replies. In the latest run through I've exclusively built MIC and NIC and have run out of things to trade by mid 1942. Lend lease from the US has so far been poor - a few aircraft and tanks, but they keep cancelling the deal not long after setting it up. Not sure if that's my fault or an annoyance in the game.

 

[grandad1982]

In my stalled UK game I built up to around 60 CIC (including ones from the nf tree) and then started building MIC and NIC. That transition was around 38. I made several mistakes though. The UK starts with very good infrastructure in general but I still chose to improve it in several states. I don't think it was needed so lost time there. I also started to build radars, ports etc before I had sufficient MIC to equip my airforce (my number 1 priority) or produce enough INF equipment and artillery for my colonial divisions (was expanding them to hold my territory in the early war before I had more powerful divisions ready).

The UK is one of the more challenging majors in my opinion due to the huge range of commitments they have and any faults in your build up are rarely seen till about 4 years have gone by.

 

[Bryartuck]

Not sure if that's my fault or an annoyance in the game.

That's an annoyance in the game.

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Its generally not a good idea to build CIC early on as the UK. Break even time for them if you build 2 years of civ factories on civilian economy is around late 1942. Keep in mind that break even date is only for the Civ factories to pay for themselves. The break even time for the military factories they produce is around late 1944 early 45. So building 2 years of civs is a waste.

You are far better off just building straight military, then when you run of of civs for trade, either switch to closed economy/limited exports, or start building civs at that point. If you feel like building a navy, build dockyards at the beginning, then switch to mil factories.

Building Civs while on civilian economy is ironically almost completely useless.

 

[Dalwin]

As the UK I only build CIC until Jan 1938, then only MIC & NIC after that. I find that works well as a lot of the military equipment you will build in the first couple of years will be so out of date by the start of the war it won't make much difference. And if you have spent a few years building up a lot of CIC then you can quickly mass produce MIC for the rest of the game.

I have to agree with this approach. For the first two years, unless strange things have happened with world tension, you won't have the manpower to build many units no matter how much equipment you have produced. There is also less benefit from getting the aircraft production cranked up for the early models than there is for the mid to late models.

This might be a useful fact while trying to stretch that early manpower. committing 150 fighter to the field is roughly equivalent to building one infantry division using mostly manpower from the Raj or Malaya. Even if you are mass producing the early aircraft, you probably want to keep them in reserve until you have opened up your own manpower somewhat.

 

[Beethoven]

Its generally not a good idea to build CIC early on as the UK. Break even time for them if you build 2 years of civ factories on civilian economy is around late 1942. Keep in mind that break even date is only for the Civ factories to pay for themselves. The break even time for the military factories they produce is around late 1944 early 45. So building 2 years of civs is a waste.

You are far better off just building straight military, then when you run of of civs for trade, either switch to closed economy/limited exports, or start building civs at that point. If you feel like building a navy, build dockyards at the beginning, then switch to mil factories.

Building Civs while on civilian economy is ironically almost completely useless.

Yeah, this is pretty much the right approach for UK, especially in multiplayer. In single player, you could do more or less whatever you want, of course.

Before 1.3.3, it was somewhat more worth it to build civs with the UK, but now it takes much longer to build up production efficiency, and industry tech (machine tools) makes a bit less extreme of a difference in your production. This means that especially as a country like UK that needs to be ready to fight early, you had better get those mils rolling out early and starting to build up their efficiency. At most, it is maybe worth building a few civs at the start in 90% infrastructure London, but 3-5 civs is about the limit.

In multiplayer, if you are playing with other good Allied players, they will trade buff the UK heavily. This also means that much of UK's civ industry ends up coming from trade. If you have a good USA player in particular, UK will be buffed so much that they will often run out of building slots in the mainland UK.

If UK tries to play 'the long game,' France is likely to fall too quickly, Italy is likely to take Africa, and the UK itself is liable to be sealioned. And if Japan is allowed to join early, the Raj and Singapore are likely to be lost. UK simply cannot afford to risk those things.

 

[Dalwin]

Yeah, this is pretty much the right approach for UK, especially in multiplayer. In single player, you could do more or less whatever you want, of course.

Before 1.3.3, it was somewhat more worth it to build civs with the UK, but now it takes much longer to build up production efficiency, and industry tech (machine tools) makes a bit less extreme of a difference in your production. This means that especially as a country like UK that needs to be ready to fight early, you had better get those mils rolling out early and starting to build up their efficiency. At most, it is maybe worth building a few civs at the start in 90% infrastructure London, but 3-5 civs is about the limit.

In multiplayer, if you are playing with other good Allied players, they will trade buff the UK heavily. This also means that much of UK's civ industry ends up coming from trade. If you have a good USA player in particular, UK will be buffed so much that they will often run out of building slots in the mainland UK.

If UK tries to play 'the long game,' France is likely to fall too quickly, Italy is likely to take Africa, and the UK itself is liable to be sealioned. And if Japan is allowed to join early, the Raj and Singapore are likely to be lost. UK simply cannot afford to risk those things.

Is your view primarily for MP games with somewhat common house rules that allow major conflicts to begin on 1/1/39? Would you say that the same is still true for situations where Barbarossa is either common or perhaps only allowed in the Spring of '41?

I know many fast paced MP games tend to be over very early, quite often before the end of '42. I suspect the question of whether early CIC are decent comes down to the timing of such things. My group plays a much slower pace and I think this colors my perspective since our meta plays out significantly differently than single session MP games do.

 

[victimizer]

If this was Vic2 I'd say spam liquor...but since it's HOI4 it's a bit out of my depth.

This is hoi4. You spam spam immediately when it becomes available in 1937 (why is there no pop-up for this event?).

 

[Beethoven]

Is your view primarily for MP games with somewhat common house rules that allow major conflicts to begin on 1/1/39? Would you say that the same is still true for situations where Barbarossa is either common or perhaps only allowed in the Spring of '41?

I know many fast paced MP games tend to be over very early, quite often before the end of '42. I suspect the question of whether early CIC are decent comes down to the timing of such things. My group plays a much slower pace and I think this colors my perspective since our meta plays out significantly differently than single session MP games do.

It is for historical games like the Road to War and Victory at All Costs games organized on the multiplayer sub-forum. In these games, Danzig is specifically in August 1939, and Barbarossa is specifically in June 1941.

So I would say my view is for an appropriately slow/historical pace.

The one thing is that these games do allow Japan to join early (generally after the fall of France and/or after doing the appropriate focuses). However, if Japan joins early USA is also allowed to join at the same time, so the Axis will often choose to have Japan wait.

 

[Dalwin]

This is hoi4. You spam spam immediately when it becomes available in 1937 (why is there no pop-up for this event?).

That could only be true when playing the UK, though in this context MP does not refer to Monty Python.

 

[Mamluke]

one question, if TfV is on, do players try to annex British Malaya (and other puppets?) or do you guys play with mods that change that?

 

[scroggin]

Britain has the advantage of being able to hunker down in their island with a fairly weak army during the early war years. I dont try to be strong till 1943.

I build naval IC untill world tension breaks 5% and you can get past civilian economy, by then you should also have done some industrial reseach and got some good ministers for IC production.

After that I only build IC till mid 1938 when I switch to millitary factories. This minimises your production of earlyequipent and maximises your production of later model equipment. During the early years my military factories produce things like trucks and support equipment that dont become outdated. In late 1938 I try to have fighters reseached ahead of time and I switch all military factories to fighter production. By late 1940 I try to have good artillery reseached and I start building some of them, followed by tanks soon afterwards.

This gives you a strong army with mostly late model equipment to unleash on Germany in 1943 once they are heavily involved in Russia.

Edit; these strategies are for single player games when there isnt much chance of a successful sealion invasion. You might need an earlier military development for multiplayer.

 

[adski42]

Interestingly diverse viewpoints here. I think one of my issues is that I tried to produce a bit of everything, especially in regard to aircraft. Maybe there isn't scope to do that.