U.S. Motorized Infantry Still in Limbo

U.S. Motorized Infantry Still in Limbo

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I just updated my game to 1.93 (I was still on 1.90), and I was surprised to find that the Catch-22 for motorized infantry as the United States had not yet been fixed. In the 1936 scenario, the U.S is given the motorized infantry tech starting out, but they don't have the motorized infantry template that is earned from researching that tech. So how can you build motorized infantry? Either take away the tech or give the U.S. the template. What we have now doesn't make sense.
 

Fulmen

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What we have now doesn't make sense.
Yes it does. The US did not have motorised formations in 1936. Realistically the ability to build trucks and make motorised divisions should be separate techs, and the US should only start out with the former.
 

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The USA has enough time to do army exercises and make motorised divisions. The default motorised template only costs 30 army EXP to make from scratch, so it's not that big of a loss (though still annoying).
 

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Yes it does. The US did not have motorised formations in 1936. Realistically the ability to build trucks and make motorised divisions should be separate techs, and the US should only start out with the former.
Or they could unlock a semi-motorized division like the total war mod does
or that a specific template does not come and that you have to spend experience to create it manually
 
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Fulmen

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Or they could unlock a semi-motorized division like the total war mod does
I'm not too savvy on US TO&E, but I'm not sure 1936 US divisions would even qualify as semi-motorised. Technically even during the war they weren't motorised, and the infantry instead used corps level assets to move from point A to B, but this can't be represented with current mechanics.

or that a specific template does not come and that you have to spend experience to create it manually
I reckon figuring out how to effectively use, supply and equip a motorised division is more along the lines of what the game treats as doctrinal research. IRL the US didn't really start motorising until the early 1940s. With only an XP requirement, you can easily create a full motorised template in 1936, which is exactly how it currently is in vanilla.
 

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I'm not too savvy on US TO&E, but I'm not sure 1936 US divisions would even qualify as semi-motorised. Technically even during the war they weren't motorised, and the infantry instead used corps level assets to move from point A to B, but this can't be represented with current mechanics.
I believe the type of division that you describe are those are those that are popularly denominated as semi-motorized since they meet all the requirements of these. We recall that a large part of the US Army is moved mostly with motorized means.
 
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Fulmen

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I believe the type of division that you describe are those are those that are popularly denominated as semi-motorized since they meet all the requirements of these. We recall that a large part of the US Army is moved mostly with motorized means.
Hmm, I recall reading the US still using horses to tow artillery until around 1939-41.
 
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The US never had 'Motorized Divisions' as a separate TO&E or division type.
In 1936, they certainly had trucks (not anywhere close to enough), but the army was still figuring out how motorized and armor fit into their Inf/Cav structure of the time.
Read "The Patton Papers" volume one which covers pre-war. Patton and Ike were actually good friends and talked about this and how they would do it. They were of course junior officers at the time but were fully aware of the work going on in Europe with motorization, mechanization and armor theory.
Even later in the war, no divisions had enough transport to move the whole division at once.
What they did have was 6x6 trucks and other vehicles coming out their ass at the corps and army level.

In game, I change the 'Infantry Division' to be motorized and leave the National Guard as foot troops since at start they are the same template I think.
 

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Since I'm going to just add MOT to the armor templates (and and more ARM to it as well) as time evolves, I don't miss there being a separate MOT template.
 

ppccctu

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Yes it does. The US did not have motorised formations in 1936. Realistically the ability to build trucks and make motorised divisions should be separate techs, and the US should only start out with the former.
But the AREN'T separate techs. I could live with that (not sure I'd advocate for it, however). Answer the question. How can U. S. build motorized infantry? By the way, I think developers eliminated this problem in the later starting scenario.
 

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The USA has enough time to do army exercises and make motorised divisions. The default motorised template only costs 30 army EXP to make from scratch, so it's not that big of a loss (though still annoying).
Ok. I can see the workaround, even though the situation is still bizarre. And I would say the current situation is "extremely" annoying. You were being way too kind. :))
 

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It was an interesting time period for the US Army, no doubt. Actually, the game does a pretty good job approximating it IMHO. At game start, there was still fighting between the Infantry branch and Cavalry branch over motor and armor design, use, TO&E, all of it. There was no money for building much equipment at all (recall the famous picture of a truck with a 'tank' sign on it). So I think the game is pretty accurate the way it is. US industry in '36 could produce trucks, but besides towing guns they didn't now how to use them.
 

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Answer the question. How can U. S. build motorized infantry?
By spending army XP to create a MOT template. You can get plenty of army XP before the war through training, attaché and national focus.
 
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How can U. S. build motorized infantry?
You spend the XP to put some MOT in your panzer formations?

To my knowledge, the tech was given to the US specifically because it was insanely weird that the US couldn't build trucks at the 1936 start despite not really having MOT formations.
 
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kimidf

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You spend the XP to put some MOT in your panzer formations?

To my knowledge, the tech was given to the US specifically because it was insanely weird that the US couldn't build trucks at the 1936 start despite not really having MOT formations.
that is why he said that maybe to unlock the basic motorized only unlock the motorized elements but not a specific template that could be unlocked the next time in 1939
 

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that is why he said that maybe to unlock the basic motorized only unlock the motorized elements but not a specific template that could be unlocked the next time in 1939
I don't understand what you mean. Didn't he want an actual new template added to the US in the 1936 scenario?
 

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[QUOTE = "Secret Master, publicación: 26774153, miembro: 4805"]
No entiendo lo que quieres decir. ¿No quería una nueva plantilla real agregada a los Estados Unidos en el escenario de 1936?
[/CITAR]

Creo que el motorizado de 1936 no necesita venir por defecto con una plantilla específica que podría insertarse perfectamente en el modelo de 1939 u otra opción también está en el modelo 36, se agrega el modelo de un motor semi-motorizado.

Estoy muy convencido de que antes de 1939 solo había 3 o 4 países que tenían algo similar llamado divisiones motorizadas o algo similar, por lo tanto, no se veía mal en ese cambio más plausible and only these countries could unlock a motorized template through the approach or a decision
 
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The US Army bought thousands of horses just after they got the first big increase in defence spending. It isn't unreasonable that the US is not motorised at the start - they weren't.

IMHO it is sillier for the UK which did have the only fully motorised army in the world in 1939 - that is very tough to achieve in game.
 
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kimidf

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The US Army bought thousands of horses just after they got the first big increase in defence spending. It isn't unreasonable that the US is not motorised at the start - they weren't.

IMHO it is sillier for the UK which did have the only fully motorised army in the world in 1939 - that is very tough to achieve in game.
That is why I have recently proposed that horses should be added to the game as a resource and produced that have the ability to be used to be used for mobile companies such as logistics or hospital and not be something abstract as is done in some mods as a cheap alternative to motorization
 

xtfoster

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I don't understand what you mean. Didn't he want an actual new template added to the US in the 1936 scenario?
Yes, he (and others like him) want a free template for a division that the US Army has NEVER used. No US Infantry Division A) had organic motor transport permanently assigned to it and B) was trained in their use for anything other than redeployment and resupply.