U.K. and factories

[Waffen9999]

Here's the problem, I'm using the U.K. as an example though this pertains to several other countries as well. U.K. starts with many factories yes, but doesn't seem to really have the population to staff them fully. Even if you staff these the future factories you need to build you'll have a hard time finding people to work in them simply because the amount of land with any meaningful population that the U.K. could use to staff them isn't a state. You have all of India with millions of people that you can't even build a single factory on. It'd be fine if those people would emigrate to Britain itself but they won't. Canada won't do either as the population base isn't very large to support industry, Australia or New Zealand? Nope. South Africa to.

The point, should countries really not be allowed to build factories in non states? Certainly no heavy industry, but all factories? Maybe have 2 factory max with a max level of 2 or 3? I mean sure India wasn't heavily industrialized same with Egypt, but the concept that the U.K. didn't have a single factory anywhere there is pushing it. Same with the Netherlands in Indonesia or Spain with the Phillipines and Cuba. France with Algeria and Northwest Africa.

 

[masochist]

i do take your point, it is one thing that leaves me very frustrated.

but then again, giving another advantage to the uk would not do the game any good i thinks.

 

[unmerged(25053)]

Hmm, I am against this. Certainly there existed some form of industrial capacity in such areas but I think it would greatly unbalance the game.

EDIT: 200

 

[Waffen9999]

Just trying to find the general consensus. This is something I think does warrant some kind of addressing. Since we can't manually split our pops to fill factories it can be incredibly difficult to staff them.

 

[Henry v. Keiper]

but then again, giving another advantage to the uk would not do the game any good i thinks.

Good point. :rofl:

However, I do wonder what affects this will cause. I suppose one reason for Imperialism was extra manpower, but then again wouldn't this cause too much manpower for a single nation in terms of industrial capability?

Perhaps the system of "acceptable majority POPs" (or whatever the game says you need for statehood) should be revised so that while you can't have states pop up all over the place, it's much easier to get things done. Or maybe they should have a forced immigration, but that might not suit to well with some ethnic groups. o

 

[Waffen9999]

Please bear in mind. I'm not saying letting countries build as many factories as they want in non state territories. Merely being able to build say 2 of them up to level 2 or 3. That way you can at least get something done. I merely used the U.K. as an example because it's national population is so pitifully small and since you can't split pops manually you're going to be hard pressed to find a way to fill a level 3 factory of any type in England, short of turning practically everyone in the state into craftsmen and clerks.

 

[Lethke]

how about letting only light industry being build in the colonies? Such as fabric factories, lumber mills, glass factories, wineries and liquor distilleries.

Maybe also dissalowing them to be enlarged?

 

[Henry v. Keiper]

Both points by Waffen and Lethke are good, but I wonder if this would overcomplicate things. As it stands now factories can be built in states. Now we're setting it so you can build factories in non-states, but only certain types.

Even still, how would we know what is really "light"? To me factories always resembled an industrialized society, and I don't often think of subsaharan Africa as heavy industrial area.

 

[swilhelm73]

Well, what kind of industrialization was there in European colonies during the VIC game period? I have no idea, but the game models it as basically none.

As for imperialism specifically, I thought it was a mixture of prestige seeking and lingering mercantilism in the VIC period, ie so you conquer uncivilized country X to get their resources and force them to buy your finished products.

 

[unmerged(27172)]

Welcome to Industrialization

Actually, I like the no factories in non-states.

Sure it gets annoying for france once you occupy all of Africa and Tunisia actually has craftsmen...

1) For the large industrial powers (England/France and Prussia/ Netherlands to lesser extent) the home countries mainly became factories and stopped producing much in the way of raw materials. By 1910 England was certainly not self-sufficient, she needed to import food from her empire. Convert all those farmers to craftsmen and clerks! Use your colonies for grain cattle, and all those pretty resources. This is the industrialised era, so do it.

2) A cheap trick is to release nations as satellite states and then attack and reannex them. If a civilized nation releases a vassal, the vasssal becomes civilised, and hence gains statehood. Reconquering it is as if you are conquering a state. This works well for French North Africa.

Victoria does simulate the industrial era well, so suck it up and build your factories at home, don't waste the brits in the field, educate them and put them to work in the factories.

The Prime Minister has spoken

 

[Darkrenown]

I only played the UK once, and finding pops to fill my factories did get tricky later, but I still managed to build a respectable industry.

 

[Waffen9999]

Well searching the net I found several websites which basically said industry in British controlled India consisted mainly of exporting resources and manufacturing of Textiles. >fabric for the most part<

 

[kingmbutu]

No factories should be allowed in colonies, nor should there be massive immigration from the colonies to the metropole since this didn't happen IRL. What would be nice is if there could be a way for you to pay less for goods that are produced in your colonies. Maybe this is already modeled and I'm just a dunderhead, but if it isn't it should be. After all, why go through the trouble of annecting a coffee producing colony when it will cost the same on the WM. And while I'm at it, I wish palm oil was in the game as a good since it was one of the chief exports from French West Africa and in huge demand throughout Europe for lubrication until petroleum based lubricants came on the scene.

 

[Lamprey]

I think no factories in colonies is a good thing, it's historical and lets you use the colonies for what they were meant to do. Supply bodies for the military meat grinder

However, I do have a small issue with the fact that it seems to be impossible to grant statehood to colonies, ever. It's almost as if there's no emigration to your colonies, so grabbing an African colony in 1840 will mean you are still unable to grant it statehood in 1910. 70 years, no emigration - seems a tad fishy.

I think adding a chance for a random event to fire changing the state culture of one of your colonial posessions to your own to one of the late-game culture techs would not be a bad idea, or an unbalancing one. Adding a trigger, something like ensuring it has been a colony of your country for at least 40 years, would further even it out ensuring there's no factories in colonies before the 1890s, but it would be a godsend to be able to offload production of goods like fabric or ammunition in order to be able to staff fuel refineries and electric gear factories back home.

 

[Waffen9999]

That's where the idea for light industry comes in, fabric and lumber at any rate. Maybe cement though that's probalby deemed heavy. And your basic liqour and winery. Because as you put it, short of Russia with it's bred like rabbit population I've yet to be able to transform a colony into a state with anyone short of Britain with it's traditional Canada, New Zealand and Australia areas with what would appear to me to be a bugged part of Africa. Evidently part of Africa connects with Britain's islands in the caribbean allowing you to turn part of the west side of Africa into a state.

 

[unmerged(25053)]

Yuck. When I play I make all these things in my country (lumber, wine/liquor, fabric, cement, etc.). I never buy anything except raw imports for any production chain. I try to be as self-sufficient as possible on basic goods (fabric, glass, etc).

And I make a fortune, with no tarrifs. Again, I only tarrif early in a game since my infrastruture is poor. It hurts the pops too much for my liking. Things cost more for them, and besides, too high a CON is not what I like. --- oops, off thread

Different style of play for everyone.

Personally, I prefer the current setup where tarrifs don't give mega-millions. If light industry were allowed in colonies, then the prices on a lot of that stuff would drop far too much. Countries like Denmark only have some light industry to begin with (Danes have clippers too but still).