Types of Tanks

[User4035]

I wanted to share a short video about the Sherman tank and how it really fared in WWII.

[vid]

I haven't played Hearts of Iron 3 I'm not sure how the game handles various types of units and advancements but I figured I'd suggest it if it wasn't already in the game.

Sherman was a very bad tank. Its only battlefield advantage was that it was fast.
Its economic advantage was pretty substantial since it was very easy to manufacture.
I hope the economic factors are in the game.

Also trying to shift Americas tank production to more heavy effective tanks should be difficult. Obviously it requires retooling factories and such but you'd also get business and lobbying backlash since the producers of the Sherman made a ton of money pumping out these cheap tanks.

 

[Caesar15]

You basically turned this thread into another tank thread and now you have summoned a hoard of people who will both defend the Sherman and others who will bash it as hard as you did. Congratulations.

 

[Shade205]

Sherman did its job, while by no means spectacular it was a perfect fit for the country that was using it. They were cheap to build, easy to make, and versatile enough to be able to be outfitted for numerous situations and deployed to the multiple theatres the US found itself in all of which were very different from eachother.

Who cares if it can't stand up to a tiger in a 1 on 1 situation if the tiger was being out produced 8 to 1?

Think big picture.

 

[Dr Hiram Temple]

I wanted to share a short video about the Sherman tank and how it really fared in WWII.

[vid]

I haven't played Hearts of Iron 3 I'm not sure how the game handles various types of units and advancements but I figured I'd suggest it if it wasn't already in the game.

Sherman was a very bad tank. Its only battlefield advantage was that it was fast.
Its economic advantage was pretty substantial since it was very easy to manufacture.
I hope the economic factors are in the game.

Also trying to shift Americas tank production to more heavy effective tanks should be difficult. Obviously it requires retooling factories and such but you'd also get business and lobbying backlash since the producers of the Sherman made a ton of money pumping out these cheap tanks.

One of the main aspects of HOI4 is that all nations' units are largely generic, meaning that a basic tank produced in the US will be the same as a basic tank in Germany, the USSR, or anywhere else. however, with a variety of chassis to chose from, and several levels of "variant" upgrades to pile on top, players can do a good job of customizing their vehicles to semi-historial values. Changing models does come at a production loss, representing the retooling difficulties you mentioned. As a result, it's very doable for a USA player to emphasize mass-producing a single "average" tank, and for a German player to build a smaller quantity of "over-engineered" tanks, though it's just as doable for both nations to try the exact opposite approach.

Oh, and a friendly note: talking smack about the Sherman is not the most well-received around these parts. You'd be best to avoid the topic. A quick forum search on tanks, shermans, and/or panthers should provide a explanation.

 

[rafan]

Sherman did its job, while by no means spectacular it was a perfect fit for the country that was using it. They were cheap to build, easy to make, and versatile enough to be able to be outfitted for numerous situations and deployed to the multiple theatres the US found itself in all of which were very different from eachother.

Who cares if it can't stand up to a tiger in a 1 on 1 situation if the tiger was being out produced 8 to 1?

Think big picture.

I tkink crews cared quite alot about it.

 

[hkrommel]

Yeah the "Sherman was crap" myth has been debunked so many freaking times on this forum it's crazy. OP, just search for some old threads and read them.

 

[User4035]

Sherman did its job, while by no means spectacular it was a perfect fit for the country that was using it. They were cheap to build, easy to make, and versatile enough to be able to be outfitted for numerous situations and deployed to the multiple theatres the US found itself in all of which were very different from eachother.

Who cares if it can't stand up to a tiger in a 1 on 1 situation if the tiger was being out produced 8 to 1?

Think big picture.

.....you just summarized the video but left out the part about tank crews dying in droves.
Did you even watch the video? its not that long.

One of the main aspects of HOI4 is that all nations' units are largely generic, meaning that a basic tank produced in the US will be the same as a basic tank in Germany, the USSR, or anywhere else. however, with a variety of chassis to chose from, and several levels of "variant" upgrades to pile on top, players can do a good job of customizing their vehicles to semi-historial values. Changing models does come at a production loss, representing the retooling difficulties you mentioned. As a result, it's very doable for a USA player to emphasize mass-producing a single "average" tank, and for a German player to build a smaller quantity of "over-engineered" tanks, though it's just as doable for both nations to try the exact opposite approach.

hmm, I'm sad to hear the game does not differentiate between different types of units. Especially since the game also focuses on various economic factors like production.

Oh, and a friendly note: talking smack about the Sherman is not the most well-received around these parts. You'd be best to avoid the topic. A quick forum search on tanks, shermans, and/or panthers should provide a explanation.

ah typical forum logic. I'm surprised a historian just hasn't slammed a bunch of facts in those threads.
kinda hard to argue the hard facts.

 

[aruon]

i've played war thunder and the sherman line of tanks aren't bad (*cough cough* t-34 line is still bae). the main problem of unreliability comes from the rapid mass production of them early in the war, resulting in roughly 30-50% of the shermans having minor-severe mechanical problems and unreliability right off the production lines. it got better with time though. and losing only 400 out of what 14000 units is a pretty good number considering the more beefy tanks they regularly locked horns with like panzer IVs and tiger 1s and 2s.

might want to edit a bit @jamesd. your not the first to accidentally reply inside of a quote :/

:3

 

[jamesd]

.....you just summarized the video but left out the part about tank crews dying in droves.
Did you even watch the video? its not that long.

hmm, I'm sad to hear the game does not differentiate between different types of units. Especially since the game also focuses on various economic factors like production.

There is more than one type of medium tank in game. The Sherman would be the equivalent of the Panzer IV or T-34, and so outclassed by more modern (Panther) or heavier (Tiger) tanks. Countries can also have modifiers applied to their tanks based on which company is in charge of research. For example the US may have a company that increases speed and reliability while decreasing hard attack while the Germans may have one that increases hard attack and armour while reducing reliability, meaning the German tanks will be individually better but more will be lost to attrition.
You should also go read the forum rules, as your last post contains a section that will get this thread locked once a moderator reads it.

 

[User4035]

There is more than one type of medium tank in game. The Sherman would be the equivalent of the Panzer IV or T-34, and so outclassed by more modern (Panther) or heavier (Tiger) tanks. Countries can also have modifiers applied to their tanks based on which company is in charge of research. For example the US may have a company that increases speed and reliability while decreasing hard attack while the Germans may have one that increases hard attack and armour while reducing reliability, meaning the German tanks will be individually better but more will be lost to attrition.
You should also go read the forum rules, as your last post contains a section that will get this thread locked once a moderator reads it.

good to hear.



But anyway, my OP question has been answered about the tanks.

 

[LordOfWar16]

Well, nobody can disagree that the sherman was outdated alot faster than the HQ in the States might have expected and that it has some major issues initialy, but it still did it's job. A few of those issues would be the one-axis gyrostabilizer which made it impossible to effectively fire while moving or the fire hazzard with the ammo racks for example. The biggest issues were solved with later itterations (wet ammo racks for example) and in the end it was good at what it was. An relatively cheap, easy to produce tank for mass production.

Just as the PzIV its initial role wasnt even an straight up tank-to-tank one, but rather more of an support role for the infantry. The US doctrine held that anti-tank guns would primarily do the anti-tank work.

That stuff aside, let's talk about gameplay. Ingame the PzIV, M4 Sherman and T-34 are identical statwise. Same year equipment has the same stats for all nations initialy. The only difference is the name and the 2d/3d models. They get their stats altered by design companies like Porsche, Henschel, MAN etc tho and you have of course the variant system to improve their aspects aswell.

When we are talking production efficiency i.e retooling etc the game already simulates that with the gearing bonus. If you swap out production lines the production efficiency will reset, which means production will slowly ramp up again. That way you have to choose when to switch and when to stop an certain production of an tank. You could for example keep producing improved pzIV models in masses, or you start slowly ramping up PzV Panther production for example.

 

[User4035]

Ok cool.
I like the economic side of games so really wanted to see some mechanics around it.

 

[Had a dad]

Seems someone edited their post and removed their commentary on the Holocaust not being in the game.

Just to set the record straight, there is no holocaust denying going on, this is a GAME.

Further any user that asserts / claims on these forums that the holocaust didn't happen (or any of the other revisionist stances) will not last long as we will not tolerate that kind of CRAP