Two religion-related matters

[NewbieOne]

1. Please remove "Jesus whispers in your head" from the Possessed category. A false locution could be a form of demonic possession but a true locution is an entire different category. It feels offensive from a Christian point of view.

2. Please change the icon for bastards. Use the baton rouge instead. There's a long way between siring illegitimate children or being born illegitimately and anything to do with satanism. Again offensive from a Christian point of view and can be offensive from the PoV of someone born out of wedlock (which is a relatively large share nowadays). Just because your parents weren't married doesn't make you spawn of Satan.

 

[Wezqu]

The cross on the bastard trait has nothing to do with satanism. It means the child is unworthy to be the heir and presents the cross of St. Peter.

 

[Prime624]

Stop being so sensitive. There are ugly facts in life that we just have to deal with.

 

[unmerged(596352)]

i bet if a jew was insulted every one would start supporting him

But when a christian says something he s being "sensitive"

 

[Nuril]

Stop being so sensitive. There are ugly facts in life that we just have to deal with.

+1

Are you claiming no one is mentally ill and claims that the voices in their head are Jesus speaking to them? Really? Even if you believe there are people specially picked for favoritism by [God-of-choice] that doesn't mean others aren't wrong about it.

It's also known that most people that are Schizophrenic aren't diagnosed as such because their voices tell them to do good, not bad, so it never becomes a concern.

i bet if a jew was insulted every one would start supporting him

But when a christian says something he s being "sensitive"

..No, they'd all be wrong. Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Ásatrú, Romuva, Slavianstvo and Tengriism included. You just have a persecution-complex.

FYI the upside-down Cross (St. Peter) only very recently became "anti-Christian".

"The origin of this symbol comes from the Catholic tradition that Simon Peter was crucified upside down, as told by Origen of Alexandria. The tradition first appears in the "Martyrdom of Peter", a fragmented text found in, but possibly predating, the apocryphal Acts of Peter, which was written no later than 200 A.D. It is believed that Peter requested this form of crucifixion as he felt he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner that Jesus died. As such, some Catholics use this cross as a symbol of humility and unworthiness in comparison to Jesus."

Etc.

 

[Wezqu]

i bet if a jew was insulted every one would start supporting him

I wouldn't as there would be no point its a game and you can't please everybody.

 

[Prime624]

i bet if a jew was insulted every one would start supporting him

But when a christian says something he s being "sensitive"

When that happened, only Paradox was supportive. That's why Jews aren't in the game. It's a game. Christians have changed over a thousand years and Paradox is anything but prejudice. It would probably be better if they were prejudiced.

 

[Nuril]

When that happened, only Paradox was supportive. That's why Jews aren't in the game. It's a game. Christians have changed over a thousand years and Paradox is anything but prejudice. It would probably be better if they were prejudiced.

I don't recall that ever actually happening, they just decided to exclude it anyway.

 

[Wezqu]

I don't recall that ever actually happening, they just decided to exclude it anyway.

I think Jews were left out as there was not really many jewish rulers and it would have taken time out of other more important things. They might add them on some patch as there was few religions added in the recent patches.

 

[grumphie]

1. how is this offensive? he THINKS he hears jesus. never its stated that it actually is jesus(and IIRC its a positve event anyway), if someone cant take that he's REALLY playing the wrong games, and should go back to the sims.

2. its. a. cross. not some kind of mark that says: SATAN SPAWN! if you go argument this way you can declare about everything bad. maybe im offended by the jumping jews of jeruzalem(not that i am), but that doesnt mean they should be removed from the game.

basicly, people who are offended by that are clearly playing the wrong kind of games. this is a historic strategy game. not the sims that try not to offend anyone and is all nice and fluffy. history wasnt fluffy. history was hard and brutal. harold godwinson wasnt some kind of king who fought bravely on the battlefield and was defeated in a heroic fight with william, he was shot int he eye and chopped into pieces by some knights. the holy roman emperor wasnt some kind of great noble ruler elected because he was the best and bravely defended every cristian. the pope wasnt and isnt the representation of god on earth, and neither is the kalief.

 

[deoved]

I don't recall that ever actually happening, they just decided to exclude it anyway.

Then we must create a mod with medieval jews.

 

[Wezqu]

2. its. a. cross. not some kind of mark that says: SATAN SPAWN! if you go argument this way you can declare about everything bad. maybe im offended by the jumping jews of jeruzalem(not that i am), but that doesnt mean they should be removed from the game.

Not to mention that as I stated before the cross in the bastard trait icon is really the Cross of St. Peter. Totally christian symbol that even vatican approves. It is used there to represent that the child is unwrothy to inherite as St. Peter saw himself unworthy to be crucified the same way as Jesus was.

 

[Prime624]

I don't recall that ever actually happening, they just decided to exclude it anyway.

A few people (not necessarily Jewish, one of them being me) questioned why Judaism didn't exist in the game. They quickly closed the threads giving false violations of rules. Not really the same, but close enough.

Then we must create a mod with medieval jews.

Yes!

 

[Wezqu]

A few people (not necessarily Jewish, one of them being me) questioned why Judaism didn't exist in the game. They quickly closed the threads giving false violations of rules. Not really the same, but close enough.

There was no violation of rules but statement of them already stating that Jews will not be in the game and if you want proof here is King himself saying that they are not adding Jews because they didn't see the point of adding religion that would be only used for courtiers.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-courtiers&p=12019877&viewfull=1#post12019877

Still they might change their mind but starting threads about the matter will not really make them do it faster.

 

[tuareg109]

1. Please remove "Jesus whispers in your head" from the Possessed category. A false locution could be a form of demonic possession but a true locution is an entire different category. It feels offensive from a Christian point of view.

2. Please change the icon for bastards. Use the baton rouge instead. There's a long way between siring illegitimate children or being born illegitimately and anything to do with satanism. Again offensive from a Christian point of view and can be offensive from the PoV of someone born out of wedlock (which is a relatively large share nowadays). Just because your parents weren't married doesn't make you spawn of Satan.

You being offended =/= You being able to impede others' rights and fun just because you're not knowledgeable enough about this time period, the religious and political symbols used/relevant, and mental illness

Get out, your entire attitude offends me and is frankly disgusting.

 

[Prime624]

There was no violation of rules but statement of them already stating that Jews will not be in the game and if you want proof here is King himself saying that they are not adding Jews because they didn't see the point of adding religion that would be only used for courtiers.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-courtiers&p=12019877&viewfull=1#post12019877

Still they might change their mind but starting threads about the matter will not really make them do it.

Don't even start with me. I started a new thread to add something I didn't get a chance to in the original thread. They said they closed it because I "reopened a closed thread". I didn't. I wanted to say something new and not related to the op of the previous thread.

And courtiers become rulers, so why leave out that religion. There were more Jews than "Romuvans" by 1337 anyway. It is the religion that started Christianity.


Sorry to get so off topic.

 

[tuareg109]

Don't even start with me. I started a new thread to add something I didn't get a chance to in the original thread. They said they closed it because I "reopened a closed thread". I didn't. I wanted to say something new and not related to the op of the previous thread.

And courtiers become rulers, so why leave out that religion. There were more Jews than "Romuvans" by 1337 anyway. It is the religion that started Christianity.


Sorry to get so off topic.

I agree with you that there should be Jews, but I think what he and Paradox are getting at is that there were Romuva rulers at the time, whereas there were no Jewish rulers anywhere (except maybe synagogues, and maybe a few baronies here or there in the Middle East).

 

[Nuril]

There were more Jews than "Romuvans" by 1337 anyway.

..You are aware that the game starts in 1066, right? The only reason to add that caveat, which is still [Citation Needed] as the Lords being Christian doesn't instantly make the people Christian, is because it is as weak as you can get them in the game. In EU3 there's only one province still represented as Pagan in the Baltic and it's just generic "Animist", akin to just the "Pagan" religion down in Africa.

 

[Arizal]

I think the Jews weren't added because when each character in a province is from a religion, then this province become of that religion. So to avoid things like a Jew HRE, they decided it was indeed too unplausible to let Jews exist in the game. Even if they had forbidden landing non-christian/muslim characters, a Jew courtier serving to educate could have changed the religion of a kingdom. This is a questionable choice, but it is understandable. I think some mods bring them back.

As for possession and Jesus, as someone said, this event is "good". Since you are a believer, you only have to think that "possessed" trait means rather "influenced by unknown forces". I think there are no need to change the name of this trait, however, since possessed is just a generic name. You could think Jesus was "possessed" by the knowledge that he was the son of God as well, so for me this isn't something that necesarilly need exorcism.

If you don't like this explanation, I don't really know what to say more.

 

[Lucius Drake]

1. Please remove "Jesus whispers in your head" from the Possessed category. A false locution could be a form of demonic possession but a true locution is an entire different category. It feels offensive from a Christian point of view.

2. Please change the icon for bastards. Use the baton rouge instead. There's a long way between siring illegitimate children or being born illegitimately and anything to do with satanism. Again offensive from a Christian point of view and can be offensive from the PoV of someone born out of wedlock (which is a relatively large share nowadays). Just because your parents weren't married doesn't make you spawn of Satan.

So, this means that infanticide is okay though, right? I am going to go make a thread whining about that right now.