Two questions about mech layout philosophise

[Bugnr01]

What do you think is better?

1. single range vs multi range. Equiping the mech with weapons of similar range will max your alpha and it seems to be reasonably easy to fight at the range of your chosing in the eary battles. The downside is that you have blindespots on your mech where you cant do much at certain ranges. You are also very likely to alpha the whole time you can fire so heat is more of an issue. Multi range on the other hand gives you a costant damage potential across various distances and heatmanagemet is easyer because you may just fire half of your weapons depending on actuall range but that means you carry a lot of death weight with your mech.
2. ammunition vs energy weapons. Energy weapons let you fight as long as you want but seem to require more tonnage to keep them functional (the mech reasonably cool). This leads to an lower alpha or a short high alpha phase with an low long time damgae output, but you will never run out of ammo. ACs and L/SRMs grant you large alpha strikes over a reasonable timeframe (less/easier managable heat graph) which lets you kill your ennemys faster than you will be abel to do with energy weapons but you will eventually ran out of ammo befor you can finish the mission.
3. Bonus question. What is a reasonable amount of ammo for the campagne so far (10-15 volleys?)

I am going to go for the "all or nothing" as heavy into the single range ammo direction as possible.
Main weapon layout with max alpha ammo weapons for a single range (AC/5+LRM or AC/20+SRM), enought heatsinks to constant alpha and ammo for about 12 volleys switching to melee ones to ammo rans dry.

What are your plans? Maybe energy multirange builds with PPCs and medium lasers?

 

[Tnarien]

As this is a discussion that's more or less as old as Battletech itself I'll simply touch on the ammo question:

In the beta most skirmish battles were over in about 10 rounds or so. As such, if you can put ~15 volleys of ammunition on your unit it's generally enough.

That being said, I don't have enough data yet to have an opinion as to whether that experience extends to the campaign as the battles will not be the same universal 4v4 deathmatch.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

I am going for the multi-range-approach, but within limits: Having flexibility is important, if I can't close in, at least I have something to fire with. So brawlers with mostly SRMs and MLs, supported by at least an AC5 or LRM15 to dish out some damage at range. For maximum damage, you can still find a "sweet spot" where all weapons are in optimal range and alphastrike. As for heat efficiency, firing my short OR long range weaponry should not create alot of heat, alphas may, up to like 25. The fire support units will work exactly the same, just shifting priorities towards long range weapons with some short-range capabilities.
I'll most likely go for ammo-based weapons and MLs if I can. I'm not too much a fan of large lasers and PPCs, except for "special occasions" ;D

As for ammo, I think 12-15 salvos is reasonable from what I've seen in the streams so far. In beta, it was more than enough.

 

[Bugnr01]

I am new to Battletech so this question is new to me and a very interessting one.

Yeah, thats what i have seen too, but the problem is that you dont know how much enemys you face in missions (and its obvious more than 4). I guess ammo builds are just not as optimal in missions as they look on paper because i allready see me ran out of ammo or carry unnecessary weight with me but this alpha strikes .

 

[Stormforge]

Multi-range for me. Though that could be in single mechs like the Centurion that are at home at all ranges, or dedicated mechs mixed in a lance like the Hunchback, Trebuchet, and Kintaro.

 

[Delta Assault]

I'm gonna go for long range Mechs mostly. The AI doesn't seem like it's that hell bent on closing to close range. I haven't seen them using sprint that much. So it seems like that'll be fine.

Though of course, a couple of MLs for backup is always a good idea.

With the current heatscale the way it is, and with the buffs to ammo-based weapons with ammo protection, as well as the buffs to the smaller ACs, I'm definitely going to try and go more towards the ACs and LRMs. The heat that energy weapons produce just really seems over the top at the moment and not worth it for the damage they provide. And the missions seem to be short enough that you won't run into ammo capacity issues. There are no available Mechbays ingame that could potentially extend missions. 10-15 turns of combat is basically enough.

 

[Bugnr01]

@Stormforge I mean in single mechs. My lance will also consit of mechs with different ranges but each mech will focus on a single range band to be as usefull as possible under optimal circumstances.

 

[Lyconnus]

When I design a Mech I tend to go with this thought. I need enough ammunition to properly carry the fight (2 tons usually well accomplishes this) and enough of a heat curve to allow me to carry said fight. As such I generally will undergun my mechs a bit for better combat durability. Examples of this will be when I have a panther. I'll rip out the PPC and replace it with a large laser. In addition I'll upgrade the SRM 4 to a 6. Rip some JJ's out. (I tend to use them for slight relocations not outright big hops) that being one example. For mediums I take a different approach. As I find some mediums to be balance in most cases primary example of this is a centurion. Sports a moderate sized gun with LRMS and energy weapons for back up punch with a good heat curve. Most of my heavy 'Mechs are going to follow a AC10/PPC main gun combo with supporting weapons. Sans the Catapult of course. I like the stock build of it as it provides a very good balance for a LRM support mech and can/will do good damage once the ammo runs dry. Possibilities are endless. Try out everything.
I do tend to maximize "jack of all trades" loadouts so I'm a bit biased to multi-range.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Multirange
But some individual mechs can be specialized

Mix - energy weapons run too hot, other weights have a lot of weight. Balancing both is best

One ton of ammo seems to push it. Especially in story missions. It also depends on the weapon - Ac20 and Lrm 20, one ton definitely isn't enough.

 

[lordarryon]

I like a multi range Lance, so 2-3 Mechs each dedicated to a different range with the remaining 1 or 2 multi range themselves

 

[Geddon]

@Stormforge I mean in single mechs. My lance will also consit of mechs with different ranges but each mech will focus on a single range band to be as usefull as possible under optimal circumstances.

The game doesn't require you to play optimally. Far from it. From what I can see from the streams, it's very forgiving - mix and see how well your ideas will play out.

For me, it will be mid to long range and a mix of ammo/energy weaponry. Starting missions has some light armor assets with half of their armor missing, so they fall apart from a funny look at their general direction. You would probably keep some energy weapons for them and some utility targets like turret generators. Hell, enemy locusts crumble after a sneeze.

 

[Stormforge]

@Stormforge I mean in single mechs. My lance will also consit of mechs with different ranges but each mech will focus on a single range band to be as usefull as possible under optimal circumstances.

Well with custom designs I prefer at least a single long-ranged weapon on brawlers, or a couple back-up Medium Lasers on a Sniper/Fire Support. Things like dropping an SRM-6 on a Kintaro to turn a Medium Laser into a Large or add a second LRM-5. On the flip side Fire Support mechs now have 2 ways they can use for close in defense. First is the same as the old way of adding a couple Medium Lasers or an SRM or 2. Now though with how this game is set up you could focus on melee and support weapons being there for in close. I have always preferred the mixed range Hunchback "Swaybacks" over the standard 4G.

 

[Tovarisc]

The game doesn't require you to play optimally. Far from it. From what I can see from the streams, it's very forgiving - mix and see how well your ideas will play out.

Bold statement to put out there when all we have seen is basically extended tutorial part of the game, difficulty starting to ramp up around embargo point.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

I have always preferred the mixed range Hunchback "Swaybacks" over the standard 4G.

2 AC5s, 2 MLs, 2 less HS almost same dmg output, much better range, 1(!) more overheat per alpha (7 compared to 6)
I don't know if we get the 3 ballistic hardpoints from MWO though, but I expect it.

 

[Cyttorak001]

I like single ranges for most 'Mechs, but that doesn't even apply to some weapons like the large laser (LL). It's good up close and all the way out to 450m. The PPC and AC/5 can now have most of their close-range penalty erased by a sufficient Tactics skill, too. And that brings up the most important point you're forgetting: pilots can be specialized for certain 'Mechs or roles.
If you have a brawler pilot in a multi-range 'Mech, half the weapons will not be operating optimally.

It's better to have a dedicated brawler pilot in a dedicated brawler 'Mech. If you need long-range support, have a dedicated sniper pilot in a dedicated sniper 'Mech.

 

[Geddon]

Bold statement to put out there when all we have seen is basically extended tutorial part of the game, difficulty starting to ramp up around embargo point.

I doubt BT will do a 180 turn on the difficulty after some story mission. It's possible but unlikely. Let's see...

The bank's interest payments are out of the picture pretty fast. You can farm the contracts endlessly. Losing a mech in combat doesn't remove it from your roster. Mechwarriors have a chance to live through the destruction of their machine even without any special modules. Okay, I lose one and apparently there is a bunch of new pilots for hire in every system from the start of the game. The half-armored opposition doesn't help but this will likely to change deeper into the skulls bar.

Sooooo the money is not a real issue, enemies can possibly be one on the last difficulty setting but player's strike team will have all kinds of +++ arms at that moment. Unless AI will field two lances to player's face at the same moment of course. I have a hunch the last difficulty will be strongly optional tho.

 

[Ertwin]

Personally I prefer to go with energy weapons. Ammo has a tendency to get explodey when struck, and that's not good for your mech.

I tend to prefer long range. I can easily see large lasers being my bread and butter. Long range with no short range penalties.

 

[Gorski123]

It's all about the 10 free heat sinks. For light mechs and fast mediums, you will generally pick one range band and use the free heat. Once you get to slow mediums, heavies and assaults, you have to add a lot more heat sinks if you want all your weapons in one range band. This encourages these mechs with more tonnage to play with to diversify into other range bands. Classic example is the Catapult. 2xLRM15 and 4 med lasers. You could change this to 2xLRM20 and no med lasers, but this seems clearly inferior. I left out autocannons because they are less about heat and just weigh a lot.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Personally I prefer to go with energy weapons. Ammo has a tendency to get explodey when struck, and that's not good for your mech.

I tend to prefer long range. I can easily see large lasers being my bread and butter. Long range with no short range penalties.

Well, in that case: HBK-4P with 2 LLs and 2 MLs, 19 HS. It may not be running cool enough to alpha all the time, but 23 overheat is still decent. You can fire the LLs at long range at nearly no overheat, closing in you switch to 1 LL and 2 MLs at no overheat at all, throwing in the other LL if desired. I actually tried this in the beta, it's a nice loadout. Not much less damage than the 4G, no refire penalties, no ammo explosions or shortages. Though alot less dmg than the standard 4P, 130 vs 200, but range has it's price.

 

[Rabid]

It's all about the 10 free heat sinks. For light mechs and fast mediums, you will generally pick one range band and use the free heat. Once you get to slow mediums, heavies and assaults, you have to add a lot more heat sinks if you want all your weapons in one range band. This encourages these mechs with more tonnage to play with to diversify into other range bands. Classic example is the Catapult. 2xLRM15 and 4 med lasers. You could change this to 2xLRM20 and no med lasers, but this seems clearly inferior. I left out autocannons because they are less about heat and just weigh a lot.

I'd say that this is more of a testament to the incredible efficiency of medium lasers.