Two Question

[Joel M Bridge]

One can you play as Ronin, and two what are the court titles you can buy/get?

 

[soran]

1- no

2- no idea, but, they give you, and your son a monthly bonus to your honor[you need to buy them seperately], and are retained for the rest of your character's life

 

[unperson]

I think I read somewhere that if you lose all your land but still have armies left you can play on for a while as a landless ronin.

 

[Tatsunoshi]

You can sponsor the Emperor and receive the Court Rank of 'Jugoi'. Jugoi is the Junior Grade (both upper and lower) of the fifth rank in the Japanese Imperial Court ranking system. The Court system was made up of four ranks for Imperial Princes, and nine for other Princes/Ministers. Rank one is the highest. Ranks 1-3 had Junior and Senior Grades, 4-8 Junior and Senior Grades with each also being divided into upper and lower, and the ninth rank was a generic starting rank often given to samurai as an honorary gift. Jugoi is pretty much smack dab in the middle.

 

[soran]

I think I read somewhere that if you lose all your land but still have armies left you can play on for a while as a landless ronin.

that is true, i forgot about that, but what i understood from his question was:

can you start as a ronin, which as far as i can tell is not possible i believe.

 

[Drakken]

You can sponsor the Emperor and receive the Court Rank of 'Jugoi'. Jugoi is the Junior Grade (both upper and lower) of the fifth rank in the Japanese Imperial Court ranking system. The Court system was made up of four ranks for Imperial Princes, and nine for other Princes/Ministers. Rank one is the highest. Ranks 1-3 had Junior and Senior Grades, 4-8 Junior and Senior Grades with each also being divided into upper and lower, and the ninth rank was a generic starting rank often given to samurai as an honorary gift. Jugoi is pretty much smack dab in the middle.

Only Jugoi? No possibility to buy off higher titles of the Daijô-kan?

 

[Joel M Bridge]

So one Question answer, another to go.

 

[Captain Gars]

Only Jugoi? No possibility to buy off higher titles of the Daijô-kan?

There are ten court titles to gain.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

There are ten court titles to gain.

Sesshō and Kampaku is gainable title?

 

[Tatsunoshi]

Just a note-there's a difference between 'ranks' and 'titles' in the Japanese Imperial Court. The rank system is the one I described above. 'Titles' are almost always associated with a job/office/position in the court...like Kanpaku (Chief Advisor), Daijō Daijin (Chancellor of the Realm), etc. So 'Jugoi' and the other ranks technically aren't titles, although I doubt most players will care . In theory, most titles could only be held by holders of a certain court rank, but in practice there were lots of exceptions.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Just a note-there's a difference between 'ranks' and 'titles' in the Japanese Imperial Court. The rank system is the one I described above. 'Titles' are almost always associated with a job/office/position in the court...like Kanpaku (Chief Advisor), Daijō Daijin (Chancellor of the Realm), etc. So 'Jugoi' and the other ranks technically aren't titles, although I doubt most players will care . In theory, most titles could only be held by holders of a certain court rank, but in practice there were lots of exceptions.

I care please explain more!?

 

[Tatsunoshi]

I care please explain more!?

Well, basically, I was just saying that the one 'title' in Sengoku that I know about (that being Jugoi) is actually a rank. Since I haven't seen any of the other 10 titles Captain Gars mentioned pop up in the games I've ran, I don't know if they would actually be ranks or titles. The two you mentioned, Sesshou and Kanpaku, are 'titles'-they're linked to specific offices of the Imperial Court.

The difference between a 'rank' and a 'title' might best be understood in modern military terms. Let's say an American Captain is in command of 'Company M' in Battalion 3 of the 339th Regiment of the 85th Infantry Division. He later become a staff officer at the Battalion level. In these cases, his 'rank' is always 'Captain'-it doesn't change. His 'title' does-first he's the 'Commander of M Company' and then his 'title' shifts to 'Battalion 3 Staff Officer'.

Titles are normally linked to specific positions, jobs, offices, etc. Usually a certain position can only be filled by a person of a certain rank, but that's not always true-in the Bakumatsu era of Japanese history for example, many samurai in the employ of the Tokugawa Bakufu were given 'titles' (and their attendant jobs/responsibilities) that in theory they weren't qualified for-their 'ranks' were too low. The Tokugawa needed their talents in those turbulent times, but didn't want to raise them in rank and upset many of the 'old timers'...samurai were very status conscious creatures.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Well, basically, I was just saying that the one 'title' in Sengoku that I know about (that being Jugoi) is actually a rank. Since I haven't seen any of the other 10 titles Captain Gars mentioned pop up in the games I've ran, I don't know if they would actually be ranks or titles. The two you mentioned, Sesshou and Kanpaku, are 'titles'-they're linked to specific offices of the Imperial Court.

The difference between a 'rank' and a 'title' might best be understood in modern military terms. Let's say an American Captain is in command of 'Company M' in Battalion 3 of the 339th Regiment of the 85th Infantry Division. He later become a staff officer at the Battalion level. In these cases, his 'rank' is always 'Captain'-it doesn't change. His 'title' does-first he's the 'Commander of M Company' and then his 'title' shifts to 'Battalion 3 Staff Officer'.

Titles are normally linked to specific positions, jobs, offices, etc. Usually a certain position can only be filled by a person of a certain rank, but that's not always true-in the Bakumatsu era of Japanese history for example, many samurai in the employ of the Tokugawa Bakufu were given 'titles' (and their attendant jobs/responsibilities) that in theory they weren't qualified for-their 'ranks' were too low. The Tokugawa needed their talents in those turbulent times, but didn't want to raise them in rank and upset many of the 'old timers'...samurai were very status conscious creatures.

So what names of ranks, and title in the Impieral courst?

 

[Drakken]

From SamuraiWiki, at least for court ranks as Tatsunoshi has exposed.

http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Court_Ranks

Court Ranks of 701

Imperial Princes (親王)

1. 一品 - Ippon (First Rank)
2. 二品 - Nihon (Second Rank)
3. 三品 - Sanbon (Third Rank)
4. 四品 - Yonhon (Fourth Rank)


Princes and Ministers (諸王、臣)

1. 一位 - Ichi’i (First Rank)
* 正一位 – Shoichi’i (Senior First Rank)
* 従一位 – Juichi’i (Junior First Rank)
2. 二位 – Ni’i (Second Rank)
* 正二位 – Shoni’i (Senior Second Rank)
* 従二位 – Juni’i (Junior Second Rank)
3. 三位 – San’i (Third Rank)
* 正三位 – Shosan’i (Senior Third Rank)
* 従三位 – Jusan’i (Junior Third Rank)
4. 四位 – Shi’i (Fourth Rank)
* 正四位上 – Shoshi’i-jo (Upper Senior Fourth Rank)
* 正四位下 – Shoshi’i-ge (Lower Senior Fourth Rank)
* 従四位上 – Jushi’i-jo (Upper Junior Fourth Rank)
* 従四位下 – Jushi’i-ge (Lower Junior Fourth Rank)
5. 五位 – Go’i (Fifth Rank)
* 正五位上 – Shogo’i-jo (Upper Senior Fifth Rank)
* 正五位下 – Shogo’i-ge (Lower Senior Fifth Rank)
* 従五位上 – Jugo’i-jo (Upper Junior Fifth Rank)
* 従五位下 – Jugoi’-ge (Lower Junior Fifth Rank)
6. 六位 – Roku’i (Sixth Rank)
* 正六位上 – Shoroku’i-jo (Upper Senior Sixth Rank)
* 正六位下 – Shoroku’i-ge (Lower Senior Sixth Rank)
* 従六位上 – Juroku’i-jo (Upper Junior Sixth Rank)
* 従六位下 – Juroku’i-ge (Lower Junior Sixth Rank)
7. 七位 – Shichi’i (Seventh Rank)
* 正七位上 – Shoshichi’i-jo (Upper Senior Seventh Rank)
* 正七位下 – Shoshichi’i-ge (Lower Senior Seventh Rank)
* 従七位上 – Jushichi’i-jo (Upper Junior Seventh Rank)
* 従七位下 – Jushichi’i-ge (Lower Junior Seventh Rank)
8. 八位 – Hachi’i (Eighth Rank)
* 正八位上 – Shohachi’i-jo (Upper Senior Eighth Rank)
* 正八位下 – Shohachi’i-ge (Lower Senior Eighth Rank)
* 従八位上 – Juhachi’i-jo (Upper Junior Eighth Rank)
* 従八位下 – Juhachi’i-ge (Lower Junior Eighth Rank)
9. 初位 – Sho’i (Starting Rank)

 

[Tatsunoshi]

Yeah, we at the Samurai Archives haven't gotten around to doing an entry for Imperial Court offices and titles, just the ranks-the court structure was very extensive and involved.

The SA does have more ranks and titles here, although most of them are titles given by the Kamakura/Muromachi/Tokugawa Bakufu.

We also have a list of titles that originally were conferred by the Imperial Court in conjunction with province management, but that over time largely became symbolic (to the point that during the Sengoku period samurai were 'awarding themselves' with the titles).

 

[Finnish Dragon]

We also have a list of titles that originally were conferred by the Imperial Court in conjunction with province management, but that over time largely became symbolic (to the point that during the Sengoku period samurai were 'awarding themselves' with the titles).

I guess Shimazu Takahisa being Mutsu no Kami is a textbook example of that. Takahisa was the daimyo of Satsuma in southern Kyushu and he claimed the title of province in northeast Honshu. I guess no clans in that region had the power to send armed troops by ships to invade Satsuma.

 

[RedRooster81]

1- no

2- no idea, but, they give you, and your son a monthly bonus to your honor[you need to buy them seperately], and are retained for the rest of your character's life

So they work like the court titles in EU Rome? Cool. Are these titles moddable? And can you grant them at your court or only the imperial court?

 

[Captain Gars]

Well, basically, I was just saying that the one 'title' in Sengoku that I know about (that being Jugoi) is actually a rank. Since I haven't seen any of the other 10 titles Captain Gars mentioned pop up in the games I've ran, I don't know if they would actually be ranks or titles.

Tatsunoshi is of course right, there are ten ranks in the game - not titles. The reason you might not have seen the other nine yet is that their is a one year "cooldown" before you can apply for the next one. The ranks available are the following:

1. Shoichii
2. Juichii
3. Shonii
4. Junii
5. Shosanmi
6. Jusanmi
7. Shoshii
8. Jushii
9. Shogoi
10. Jugoi

So they work like the court titles in EU Rome? Cool. Are these titles moddable? And can you grant them at your court or only the imperial court?

They are moddable, and only granted by the imperial court. And you can get them for both yourself and your heir.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Tatsunoshi is of course right, there are ten ranks in the game - not titles. The reason you might not have seen the other nine yet is that their is a one year "cooldown" before you can apply for the next one. The ranks available are the following:

1. Shoichii
2. Juichii
3. Shonii
4. Junii
5. Shosanmi
6. Jusanmi
7. Shoshii
8. Jushii
9. Shogoi
10. Jugoi



They are moddable, and only granted by the imperial court. And you can get them for both yourself and your heir.

What do the titles do? and how can become ronin, and is any benfits, or does it happen through events?

 

[chatnoir17]

I guess Shimazu Takahisa being Mutsu no Kami is a textbook example of that. Takahisa was the daimyo of Satsuma in southern Kyushu and he claimed the title of province in northeast Honshu. I guess no clans in that region had the power to send armed troops by ships to invade Satsuma.

There were two important branches of Shimazu, the one was traditionally assigned as Mutsu no Kami and the other was Sagami no Kami. Shimazu Takahisa belonged to the latter line, but he succeeded the Mutsu no Kami line which was regarded as the leader of this clan. I think he asked to the title of Mutsu no Kami to show his retainers that he was the regal successor of the whole Shimazu clan.

So the ranks and titles at the Imperial Court were mostly symboric, but still have some kind of political meanings.