Two Hive Mind Fallen Empires

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Lazy Name

Second Lieutenant
Apr 26, 2020
167
361
Ideas for two new Hive Mind Fallen Empires. The first is based around a chaotic, constantly evolving militaristic "wide" empire with a decentralized tribal intelligence, while the second is based on a orderly, lethargic pacifist "tall" empire centered around a single intelligent mind. They both consider each other their "opposite ethic" fallen empire and thus are likely to declare each other their Ancient Rival. Feedback is appreciated.

The Vehement Fractures:
FE: Vehement Fractures
This Fallen Empire was a chaotic, rapidly growing and evolving hive mind that expanded across the galaxy. However, their size combined with their lackadaisical attitude towards mind infrastructure led to massive communication delays between different sectors of the hive. Over time, this led to areas of the mind growing different, splintering what was once a whole into dozens of fragments. Each believing themselves to be the original mind of the hive, they quickly devolved into infighting. While the massive territory that caused the fracture has since been lost, they still remain locked in a perpetual stalemate, forever battling against equally matched opponents. They see the younger empires as tools for their war - and one day, organic material to fuel their expansion once more.

A few separate versions of the Vehement Fractures with unique leaders will spawn next to each other filling the size of a normal fallen empire territory. Each fracture has a core system with a single Hive world that can be terraformed into a Gaia world, and the rest of the territory is covered by no-man's land with multiple Tomb worlds and Broken worlds. They will produce fleets, but will only use them against the other fractures. Diplomacy is done with each fracture separately, and they will request strategic resources or donation of an admiral or general to be assimilated into the hive. The "Patronizing" attitude is replaced by "Appreciative", representing when they consider you useful to their war. There is a much smaller opinion penalty for not helping them and they are more generous/careless with rewards then other fallen empires, but helping a fracture causes an opinion penalty with the others. If their opinion penalty gets low enough, the individual fracture will demand that you give them a large sum of resources to make up for their losses in the war. If you conquer territory from any of them, any neighboring fractures will demand that you give them that system (to prevent an empire from easily taking them out one by one). They use the World Cracker Colossus (which is randomly given to one of the fractures), and primarily use kinetic weapons. Awakens when sufficiently powerful outside foes manage to draw their attention enough to reunite them. Will always automatically awaken if only one fracture remains.


AE: Ferocious Convergence:
With all of its fractures finally agreeing on a common goal, they have reunited into the Ferocious Convergence to once more conquer the galaxy. They plan on making up for the wasted eons of stagnant evolution by pitting the younger empires against each other and assimilating the strongest of them; a final chance for them to see the strength the collective will reach.

All fractures merge back together into a single empire. Their unique subject type is “Sacrificant”, and requires that the subject empire gives them organic pops for them to assimilate every year. There is a chance that a leader is included in the yearly sacrifice, killing the leader. If there are multiple nearby empires, the Convergence will subjugate them in the order (Strongest -> Weakest -> Machines). The "Belligerent" attitude is replaced by the "Admirative" attitude, which has the same effect. Every few years that they are not already at war, the Convergence will declare a total war on the weakest Sacrificant, or one that is unable to give the sufficient number of organic pops. Will assimilate pops on conquered worlds. The Convergence will never become the Guardians of the Galaxy, but if the crisis is the Prethoryn Scourge they may declare them a “worthy foe” and will awaken to battle them.


Personality:
Due to their species trait of assimilating victims, the Vehement Fractures believe in a system where the powerful battle to the death, and the strongest survives and becomes even stronger. Due to this, they actually enjoy seeking out and going to war against powerful empires, simply considering it the natural way of things. While they treat weak empires like food, they often treat strong empires with admiration and anticipation of their eventual battle. However, this only applies to organic species, and they dismiss machines as annoying wrenches in the gears of their perfect system due to being unable to assimilate them.

The Comatose Decadent:

FE: Comatose Decadent
This Fallen Empire was once a shining beacon in the galaxy. They perfected every single planet in their territory, created massive alliances, and step by step built a utopia; all in their endless pursuit of perfection. However, after centuries without conflict, the hive began to grow lazy. Their drones toiled slower, their projects were left unfinished, and entire planets were simply forgotten and abandoned. After millennia in decline, the collective has grown used to avoiding effort and risk, and now lives eternally in a state of negligence and sloth. They see the younger empires as quarrelsome but harmless, though they would still much rather avoid the troubles of war.

Their core system consists of multiple Relic worlds. Their worlds have large amounts of unemployed idle drones, as well as blockers that they do not attempt to clear. Their requests involve getting rid of some hostile spaceborne aliens for them, or sending them a construction vessel to aid them in repairs. They dislike when military ships are in systems near their borders, and especially dislike battles happening in those systems. They will demand (politely ask) that you stop, but they will merely have an opinion penalty if you refuse. They will never declare war themselves in any circumstances, and will accept status quo very easily. However, if their opinion of any empire is very low there is a chance that they will awaken. They use the Global Pacifier Colossus, and primarily use energy weapons. Awakens when they feel the young fragmented empires are becoming too powerful and dangerous to be left on their own, and the only way to guarantee safety is to take control themselves and unite the galaxy under a single mind.


AE: Grand Perfectionist:
Having decided that the state of the galaxy has fallen too far, the Comatose Decadent awakens into the Grand Perfectionists to reunite the galaxy under their vision. Their plan for a perfect, conflict-free galaxy shall be put into effect, and all deviants will fall in line… If absolutely necessary, then by force.

Starts turning their Relic worlds back into Ecumenopolis worlds. Their unique subject type is “Instrument”. Instruments are considered by the Perfectionist to simply be an extension of the hive, and can no longer declare wars on their own. The Perfectionist will on occasion force an order on their subject, such as changing their edicts or "reallocating" their resources/pops. All subjects as well as the AE are considered in a defensive pact with one another, and the Perfectionist will give you resources if you're low on them (at the cost of other subjects). They will become the Guardians of the Galaxy against any end-game crisis.


Personality:
The Comatose Decadent is at heart extremely risk averse, and for this reason hates conflict and war and loves order and control. They are not selfish, but simply don't understand other empires; they genuinely believe that if everyone was allocated sufficient resources, then everyone would be happy and no one would be in conflict. They understand the general gist of interacting with non-gestalts, like how purging is bad and they need consumer goods, but they still consider them to be merely hive minds with very strange needs and cannot grasp the idea of them desiring individuality or freedom. They generally treat other empires politely, but occasionally will question the sub-optimal way you run your empire or the inefficient preferential treatment you give certain drones.
 
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WeeBigTerd101

First Lieutenant
Nov 16, 2020
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I really like this! So the first one is like the Argentine ants, and how thy at first have multiple queens but eventually they consider themselves different and then they fight. Which I think is pretty cool. However I think that the first one would be better if instead of being messy and then the hive splitting it should be that the overmind gets mostly destroyed in some horrific either genetic, physical, or Psyonic accident. And then they would awaken by maybe when two two large fleets of the fractures fight the fractured destroyed minds of the two fleets merge through some sort of event and then that mind takes over the other fractures as the righteous ruler of the swarm and as it’s vassal it give it a pop and a 1000 food every year.

I do like the second ones though. They were once a glistening determined force of change a good in the galaxy but then slowly decayed and the mind is bored
 
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I would rather suggest to have one organic hive mind fallen empire and its natural rival is the robot hive mind fallen empire. that seems a lot more natural to me at least.
 
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Tamwin5

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I personally think that the Hive mind FE should be actually sleeping, rather than merely lazy and idle. It feels much more in flavor, and would also be more interesting imo. I also don't think there should be two different types of Hive FE that spawn in, although having there be multiple types of Hive that could "wake up" from the sleeping FE would be great.
 
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Lazy Name

Second Lieutenant
Apr 26, 2020
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Personally, I find having more varied types of Hive Mind Fallen Empires to be more interesting. I would prefer for Hive Minds to have more potential for different flavors; Regular fallen empires, for example, would lose a lot of flavor if they lost their unique ethics that explains their motivation and just became a generic "powerful sleeping empire". Similarly, I feel a generic "powerful sleeping Hive Mind" wouldn't really feel all that interesting, which is why I tried to go with two "opposite ethic" Hive Minds with unique motivations and reasons for their decline to make sure they were more then just a hive mind.

Its all just personal preferences though, and the idea of an literally sleeping Hive Mind is very interesting. I would however prefer the idea of it being not completely asleep, but merely hypnagogic and senile from its ancient age, since being completely asleep kind of reduces the amount of flavor you can get from it.
 

Tamwin5

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Personally, I find having more varied types of Hive Mind Fallen Empires to be more interesting. I would prefer for Hive Minds to have more potential for different flavors; Regular fallen empires, for example, would lose a lot of flavor if they lost their unique ethics that explains their motivation and just became a generic "powerful sleeping empire". Similarly, I feel a generic "powerful sleeping Hive Mind" wouldn't really feel all that interesting, which is why I tried to go with two "opposite ethic" Hive Minds with unique motivations and reasons for their decline to make sure they were more then just a hive mind.

Its all just personal preferences though, and the idea of an literally sleeping Hive Mind is very interesting. I would however prefer the idea of it being not completely asleep, but merely hypnagogic and senile from its ancient age, since being completely asleep kind of reduces the amount of flavor you can get from it.

There is only a single type of FE for each ethic (and still missing ones for Egalitarian, Authoritarian, Militarist, and Pacifist). Having two types of for Hive minds breaks that pattern, and even more so to make them be war in heaven enemies.

I hard disagree that having a hive be asleep would be a loss of flavor, because sleeping things dream. Messages referencing long dead empires or imaginary enemies, or even things completely imagined. Fleet moving around on an instinctive autopilot, acting as a sort of immune system. And honestly, Stellaris is a game about tropes, and the sleeping hive is too big of a trope to NOT be implemented.

Then, when it finally wakes up, do you realize what sort of beast you've been poking. Here is where you implement the different types of hives with their own unique motivations and reasons. I wouldn't go full devouring swarm, but for sure have one which demands food and pop growth as tribute. Maybe have another one which massively reduces unity, syphoning your togetherness to power its own.
 
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Lazy Name

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Apr 26, 2020
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I guess we just disagree on what we want from a Hive Mind FE. I personally would rather have multiple Hive Mind FEs each with their own defined flavor similar to regular Fallen Empires, over having a single Hive Mind FE with a more general Hive Mind flavor that awakens into different types. It doesn't really break the pattern more then the Ancient Caretakers already did, since Hive Mind isn't an ethic and regular Fallen Empires already come in opposite pairs. Its just a matter of opinion which ones better, and I personally prefer having different types of Hive FEs.
 

Tamwin5

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I guess we just disagree on what we want from a Hive Mind FE. I personally would rather have multiple Hive Mind FEs each with their own defined flavor similar to regular Fallen Empires, over having a single Hive Mind FE with a more general Hive Mind flavor that awakens into different types. It doesn't really break the pattern more then the Ancient Caretakers already did, since Hive Mind isn't an ethic and regular Fallen Empires already come in opposite pairs. Its just a matter of opinion which ones better, and I personally prefer having different types of Hive FEs.

How does it not break the pattern? Yes, technically Machines and Hives technically use the same "ethic" of gestalt, but it's obvious they are different things. Having one hive mind empire would be following it, two or more would be breaking it (although having multiple versions that it could wake up into, similar to how the ME can go berserk, would be fine). If you think that the pattern is dumb and shouldn't be kept to thats fine, but having two hive FEs would very much be breaking it.
 

Lazy Name

Second Lieutenant
Apr 26, 2020
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How does it not break the pattern? Yes, technically Machines and Hives technically use the same "ethic" of gestalt, but it's obvious they are different things. Having one hive mind empire would be following it, two or more would be breaking it (although having multiple versions that it could wake up into, similar to how the ME can go berserk, would be fine). If you think that the pattern is dumb and shouldn't be kept to thats fine, but having two hive FEs would very much be breaking it.

I do agree that it doesn't fit with the precedent created by the Ancient Caretakers, I just meant that the Machine FE already completely broke the pattern anyways. Theres no reason why a Hive Mind FE couldn't do so as well, and I'd personally prefer if it followed the precedent from the design of regular FEs over the machine FE.
 
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