Twitter:woods, forest... a difference?

[warchlak]

"We have a few new terrain types in Hoi3, like arctic and woods."

I just read that there will be a new terrain type called "woods". What will be the difference with the actual forrest in HoI2 ? Which province will have that kind of terrain? Can PI give us an example?

 

[Battlecry]

As a general difference, "woods" might be defined as either a wooded though settled area, such as much of the Ardennes, Black Forest, and East Prussia, or simply a thinly wooded area, with more clearings than a dense forest.

"Forest" would generally refer to largely unsettled, densely wooded areas, as in much of northern Russia, Finland, etc.

At least this is how we use the two terms in my country.

In game terms I should think "woods" would be to "forest" as "hills" is to "mountains". So Bastogne (Ardennes) would be woods, while Yakutsk (Siberia) would be forest.

 

[warchlak]

I know the difference of meaning between woods and forrest
My question was what will be the difference in term of modificator in game and if PI could give us a small example... thanks btw

 

[Ostheim]

If you want someone to guess, using the HOI2 modifiers I would think it might look something like this:

MODIFIER;INF
ATT_FOREST;-10
ATT_WOODS;-5

 

[unmerged(134661)]

Personally, I think this level of differentiation is confusing. I see the two as synonomous not identical.

Further, if HoI 3 uses the EU3 system with partial terrain (70% urban, 30% plains), you can easily differentiate light forested areas versus densely forested.

Am I missing something?

 

[7thGalaxy]

Personally, I think this level of differentiation is confusing. I see the two as synonomous not identical.

But they are not synonomous...

 

[PIT_AMERO]

But they are not synonomous...

Who said it?

 

[Bullfrog]

as has been said, the difference is boreal forest versus more temperate woodland. The latter is much more easily passable.

 

[7thGalaxy]

Who said it?

Fanatical.. who I was quoting.. He said that he saw the two as synonomous, which they are not.

 

[PIT_AMERO]

Fanatical.. who I was quoting.. He said that he saw the two as synonomous, which they are not.

I was asking you.
Why they aren't synonyms, because I think and I'm using them as interchangeable? Even "Word" is saying that they are.

 

[Lazy_Boy]

Probably just less of a modifier than forest. Seems like a good idea to me. Some forests would be absolutely impossible to pass though while light woods would barely slow down vehicles.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

Fanatical.. who I was quoting.. He said that he saw the two as synonomous, which they are not.

Just because you say they're not synonomous doesn't mean that it's true.
I think it's a differentiation that's very confusing - perhaps there are language differences at work?

From wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn:

S: (n) forest, wood, woods (the trees and other plants in a large densely wooded area)

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Woods

woods
Noun, pl, closely packed trees forming a forest or wood


I really don't think that the english language as I have seen it used in Canada makes a clear distinction nor can I find websites that make a clear distinction. Often the definition of one refers to the other.


It would be better to simply say Light Forest versus Dense Forest.

 

[Christian D]

They already have in place the partial terrain system, so I doubt it's just like forest only with a lesser penalty. (Or else why not just make it 50% forest?)

 

[Bullfrog]

Here this is what I am thinking. There is a difference between what ecologists call "taiga" and temperate forest or woods.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

Here this is what I am thinking. There is a difference between what ecologists call "taiga" and temperate forest or woods.

Very very logical.

If that's the intended use of the terrain, let's rename it though. I instantly know that Taiga is not the same as a normal forest/woods and would be a much harsher climate with a high attrition probability.

 

[potski]

Forest and woods are not the same in common usage in the UK:

Ecologically, a woodland is an area covered in trees, usually at low density, forming an open habitat, allowing sunlight to penetrate between the trees, and limiting shade. Woodland may support an understory of shrubs and herbaceous plants including grasses. Woodland may form a transition to shrubland under drier conditions or during early stages of primary or secondary succession. Higher densities and areas of trees, with largely closed canopy provide extensive and nearly continuous shade are referred to as forest.

Woodland is used in British woodland management to mean any smaller area covered in trees, however dense.

Woodlot is a closely-related American term, which refers to a stand of trees generally used for firewood. While woodlots often technically have closed canopies, they are so small that light penetration from the edge makes them ecologically closer to woodland than forest.

Forests are differentiated from woodlands by the extent of canopy coverage: in a forest the branches and the foliage of separate trees often meet or interlock, although there can be gaps of varying sizes within an area referred to as forest. A woodland has a more continuously open canopy, with trees spaced further apart, which allows more sunlight to penetrate to the ground between them.

In the UK the distinction is fairly clear, since we have both types.

Woods: small areas, or larger areas where the trees are not very close together

Forest: large areas, where the trees are very close

 

[potski]

EUIII defines the following terrain:

farmland = {
	movement_cost = 1.25
}

plains = {
	movement_cost = 1.1
}

steppe = {
	movement_cost = 1.0
##	tree = grass
}


coniferous_forest = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = coniferous
	defender = 1
}


decidous_forest = {
	movement_cost = 2.0
	tree = decidous
	defender = 1
}

jungle = {
	movement_cost = 3.0
	tree = jungletree
	defender = 1
}


marsh = {
	movement_cost = 2.2
	defender = 1
}


desert = {
	movement_cost = 1.25
##	tree = palmtree
}


hills = {
	movement_cost = 1.66
	altitude = 0.3
	defender = 1
}

mountains = {
	movement_cost = 3.0
	altitude = 0.7
	defender = 2
}

impassable_mountains = {
	movement_cost = 8.0
	altitude = 1
}

EUIII also has a file which defines the trees drawn on the map, and there are not only three different 3d images of the different trees to go on the different wooded terrain, but also it defines:

coniferous = { 80% chance of a tree }

decidous = { 60% chance of a tree }

jungletree = { 60% chance of a tree }

"Decidous" must be Swedish for deciduous.

So I think all they have done this time is changed the terrain types slightly:
EUIII deciduous forest = HOI3 woods
EUIII coniferous forest = HOI3 forest

 

[Ostheim]

Is it really that hard to understand the difference between woodlands and dense forests?

 

[unmerged(134661)]

Is it really that hard to understand the difference between woodlands and dense forests?

Take the attitude out of the forums please. Yes, it is difficult. Because not all cultures use langauge in the same way. In the same way that fags don't mean the same thing to british as they do to North Americans.

I'm still waiting for someone to reference an English dictionary that has two distinct places for Woods and Forest that doesn't refer to the each other. I've already shown two dictionaries that show that the terms are synonomous.

I'm also clearly not the only one who is confused by the terms. Hence, I suggest using a term that is less culturally ambiguous (dense forest versus forest, taiga versus forest, something. This is an international game and I think PI would like to make it intuitive. This ins't intuitive to everyone.

Oh and here's Meriam Webster:

Entry Word: forest
Function: noun
Text: a dense growth of trees and shrubs covering a large area<the endless forest that the first European settlers encountered>
Synonyms timber, timberland, wood(s), woodlandRelated Wordscoppice, copse, grove, scrubland, stand, thicket; greenwood, wildwood; woodlot

Main Entry: wood·land
Pronunciation: \ˈwu̇d-lənd, -ˌland\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
: land covered with woody vegetation : timberland , forest — wood·land·er \-lən-dər, -ˌlan-\ noun

 

[potski]

EU:Rome as well as other terrain types defines NINE types of wooded terrain:

coniferous_forest = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = coniferous
	defender = 1
	}

decidous_forest = {
	movement_cost = 2.0
	tree = decidous
	defender = 1
}

birch = {
	movement_cost = 3.0
	tree = birch
	defender = 1
}

coniferous_forestB = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = coniferousB
	defender = 1
}

CypressA = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = CypressA
	defender = 1
}

CypressB = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = CypressB
	defender = 1
}

Ceder = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = Ceder
	defender = 1
}

PalmA = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = PalmA
	defender = 1
}

PalmB = {
	movement_cost = 2.5
	tree = PalmB
	defender = 1
}

You can see most of these have the same combat/movement modifiers, and they are mainly defined to enhance the graphics, so you see different tree types on the map in Egypt, Italy and France.