Twitter: The improved expeditionary forces system is now being developed.

[Luka]

I'm really hoping that the team have taken heed of what I've talked about in the past concerning cooperation between allies.
Mainly this was to do with the planning of invasions and the like, but it heavily overlaps with exp forces.
For example, in HoI2 if you require a certain amount of troops for your D-Day landings you just have to hope that the exact force you want is lent to you. This is insane.
A request for forces should be sent to your allies (all forces including land, air and sea), which will then be allocated to you if they are available.
This brings up another very interesting point concerning the communication between allies. Let's say the above system is implemented, which would be fantastic, and you playing as the UK put in a request for a large chunk of forces for D-Day. Now, you know that they're for D-Day...the AI however does not.
Will it give you the forces for this all important mission?
Is the AI USA planning their own invasion?
Can you tell your allies where you plan to invade and when and with what forces?

This kind of allied cooperation is very important and I do hope that is has not been overlooked by the team.
What do you all think? I'm glad that a exp forces 'system' is being developed, as it sounds far more in depth than just giving a country a division or corps - but if this is all it is, I fear we may still need more.

 

[Devout]

I would like to see expeditiary force requests be linked to army headquarters. And that in turn affects AI decision.

Not sure if this is a good example, but:
Australia may say no to giving its troops to London based HQ, but wouldn't hesitate to give them to the Singapore HQ to support southeast asia.

I also don't think its reasonable to explect any type of intent knowledge when giving the forces. So the units under the London HQ could be defending the coastline or preparing for D-Day. Australia wouldn't know when giving the troops, it would have to base the decision on geography and threats.

 

[Luka]

Australia wouldn't know when giving the troops, it would have to base the decision on geography and threats.

That does seem sensible, but I was thinking of the obvious US example where there needs to be some sort of communication between allies to prevent each country in an alliance independently planning offensives that would, could and should be combined into a single offensive (D-Day being the obvious example). I'm just making a mock up interface to show a relatively simple way of doing this...

 

[unmerged(131221)]

Coordination will now be the key to the successfull operations and I hope they dont screw that.
Demnanding specified forces should be possible if not then only the old Military Control is left... On that scale of game as it will be now its almost impossible to manage that. I hope that there will be some options, like:
1. Demand certain amount and type of units.
2. Select units from their pool.
Both would be fine. F.e:
1.
- I want as Germany a transport fleet from Italians (like 2 TP ships) and they give me them - its their choice which ones.
- Some units to Eastern Front - they decide what kind off.
2. I want specified troops like controll of whole Italian African theater.

EDIT
Another things:
- Diplomatic option of sharing intelligence info.
- Possibility of coordination (without taking controll) of operations. It could work like markin provinces on map.
- Info from allies about their operations (also could be a mark on the map)

 

[unmerged(34050)]

I would like to see expeditiary force requests be linked to army headquarters. And that in turn affects AI decision.

Not sure if this is a good example, but:
Australia may say no to giving its troops to London based HQ, but wouldn't hesitate to give them to the Singapore HQ to support southeast asia.

I also don't think its reasonable to explect any type of intent knowledge when giving the forces. So the units under the London HQ could be defending the coastline or preparing for D-Day. Australia wouldn't know when giving the troops, it would have to base the decision on geography and threats.

This would be nice--e.g. UK player asks Australia for "X" at "Y" (a marine div at Singapore, or more generally SE Asia perhaps) and then Australia's AI has some formula to determine if this aligns with it's threat assesment and says yes/no.

 

[Rommel22]

I am hoping to be able to send expeditionary forces or "volunteers" to help out countries of my own choosing if I desire to do so.

I am talking about in the form of Germany sending troops to Spain, and I am not talking through an event either. I want to be able to send troops of my own choosing if I so wish.

Or Finland for example, what if I want to send some planes, tanks, and soldiers to fight for Finland when they need it in 39. I of course want to be able to do this without having to be in an alliance with these countries, a la HOI1.

 

[Luka]

Image mock up

Here's a mock up I did trying to show some of my ideas. Johan and co...if you're out there, I'd love to see some of this stuff implemented. I'll let the image speak for itself, if anything is unclear then please just ask.

 

[Inner Circle]

Wow... nice one Luka! I support this idea!

 

[Schnitzelwurst]

i like the idea.. but i would also like to see a small menue in this window where you can just choose how much units you need of which type. for example you say "i need 10 tank devision, 30 infanteri, 20 motorisied infantery, 8 tac bombers and 4 naval bombers and 15 transport flotillas" instead of choosing each unit directly.. so you allys can say "oh, i've got these 3 inf division i dont need" and then they could them put into the unit pool for you plan. you could also say which provinces were for starting the plan, so that the lend units geht strategic transportat there and you get control over them. That would make creating plans and supporting them easier for you and your allies.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

Not sure if some of you played it but PTO II made by Koei is one of my all-time favourite games.

The posters suggestion above reminded me of the way objectives were set in that game and I think those smaller objectives were missing. However, I think the EF is only a small part of the broader topic of ally cooperation.

Here's how I think it could be used, every month, the allies and axis meet. They negotiate the set short-term objectives in the war and longer-term objectives. This month, we will invade Greece, stockpile munitions next to Russia and shore up air defenses over the channel. Depending on who meets those objectives, it will shape who has the power to determine the next goals.

1) This captures the spirit that the 'allies' were still individual countries with sometimes competing interests
2) This helps the AI to work with the player. Without this mechanism, the AI will not really know how to cooperate with the player and vice versa.

 

[Luka]

2) This helps the AI to work with the player. Without this mechanism, the AI will not really know how to cooperate with the player and vice versa.

That, is the entire point. Rather than having all the member countries of an alliance attack their mutual enemies individually, they should attack in concert with each other, with at least some knowledge of what their allies are doing.
Perhaps some sort of ranking system that dictates the level of authority in an alliance. For example, Germany would tell Italy what to do and the Italians would take the advice from Germany. The player, playing as Germany, should be able to demand, to a certain extent, forces from Italy for use in Barbarossa.
But the key point to this entire thread is: Allied cooperation. How has it changed from HoI2?

 

[unmerged(132658)]

In HoI2 I always took complete control of my allies military mainly because when I didn't, I would see a stack of Hungarian troops just standing on Budapest or a stack of Italian troops standing on a province in Africa (Ethiopia, I think). At least when I control them completely, I can use them for my battles and coordinate my attacks with their troops as well.

Perhaps they should include an option when taking control of someones military, you can chose whether you want to just control their land forces, air forces, naval forces or all of them.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

But the key point to this entire thread is: Allied cooperation. How has it changed from HoI2?

Yes, that's the key. I pray that PI is working on this element.

In HoI2, the AI (especially the Romanian/Hungarian/Bulgarians) did very little to assist. I refused to take control of them or accept their EF because neither is exactly historical nor did I want to do that.

The EU3 mission structure combined with a monthly mission selection process that is shared by all the allies would be a phenomenal addition. This would greatly improve the AI's ability to work together with themselves and the human.

1941 Jan - Axis discuss missions (options may include objectives to capture, places to shore up defenses, etc.). Germany heavily influences discussion but minors feel that Greece must be defeated and Germany agrees.

Mission now includes conquer Athens. Country to do so receives X Money and will wield greater influence at the next meeting.

That would be a great combination of EU3 and PTO2.

 

[Luka]

In HoI2 I always took complete control of my allies military mainly because when I didn't, I would see a stack of Hungarian troops just standing on Budapest or a stack of Italian troops standing on a province in Africa (Ethiopia, I think). At least when I control them completely, I can use them for my battles and coordinate my attacks with their troops as well.

Perhaps they should include an option when taking control of someones military, you can chose whether you want to just control their land forces, air forces, naval forces or all of them.

I did too occasionally, but to be honest it was difficult enough managing my own forces, I didn't want to take on the responsibility of managing all the forces on several other nations. You raise an interesting point though; if we take military control of another nation, now we can just set the AI to take control of all the forces that we do not wish to deal with. However, this solution feels like a workaround rather than an innovative solution, plus it really lacks the 'flavour' of being able to negotiate with your allies for armed forces, supplies and objectives.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Wonderful screenshot, Luka.

I do love the fact that Britain and Austria are allied in 1936.

 

[Luka]

Yes, that's the key. I pray that PI is working on this element.

In HoI2, the AI (especially the Romanian/Hungarian/Bulgarians) did very little to assist. I refused to take control of them or accept their EF because neither is exactly historical nor did I want to do that.

The EU3 mission structure combined with a monthly mission selection process that is shared by all the allies would be a phenomenal addition. This would greatly improve the AI's ability to work together with themselves and the human.

1941 Jan - Axis discuss missions (options may include objectives to capture, places to shore up defenses, etc.). Germany heavily influences discussion but minors feel that Greece must be defeated and Germany agrees.

Mission now includes conquer Athens. Country to do so receives X Money and will wield greater influence at the next meeting.

That would be a great combination of EU3 and PTO2.

I purchased EU3 when I heard that HoI3 was being developed to have a look at the engine and interface (which I have to say is a gigantic improvement over HoI2) but there was no mention of missions. I see that this is an In Nominie feature and I'm curious to see how it has been implemented. If it's not too far from what we're describing already then there's a strong hope of it being in the game or at least being able to be introduced later on in an expansion. One of the things I kept in mind when making the mock up image was that it didn't use any new user interface elements that would have to be programmed. It could all be constructed using things we've already seen in the screen shots - not to say that this would necessarily be an easy thing to program, but that's all in Paradox's hands.
Could you elaborate on the EU3:IN system?

 

[Luka]

Wonderful screenshot, Luka.

I do love the fact that Britain and Austria are allied in 1936.

Oops. I was making the screen shot from the point of view of Germany and I overlooked the most obvious thing

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Oops. I was making the screen shot from the point of view of Germany and I overlooked the most obvious thing

What, that Germany was allied to Belgium?

 

[potski]

I don't think you will have to take MC - there is no option for it on the Diplomacy screen (see Dev Diary #12). I think your allies' forces will be arranged in Armies/Groups/Theatres under AI control, and at any stage you can just take control of a part of their command structure from the AI if you want.

 

[Luka]

What, that Germany was allied to Belgium?

War is madness