Subspecies counts as another species, people don't like it. Subspecies counts as parent species, people don't like it. Oh well.
Twitter Teasers February 6th
- Thread starter BjornB
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It's likely that this teaser shows us a message (or one of the messages) after choosing Ascension Perk related to psionics.
Nice, but considering the diversity in stellaris a more generic picture would have been appropriate for the psi event than one with a human.
Oh god that would be a great possibility for revolt. Possibly auto-enter a psyker faction once a POP gains the trait. If that faction becomes angry they can break off and become one of the religious (psyker/purple) governments with fanatical spiritualist ethics.
I kind of wish you can pick sides in the rebellion. I want my psykers to earn their superiority.
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Who doesn't?
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Oh right, the materialist.
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Oh wait, I am the materialist!
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Damnit.
Seriously though: I wonder how (if psyker rebellions are a thing, and I really hope so) the nations around this civil war will react. Especially the spiritualists and materialists.
The entire thing reminds me of the Vic 2 fascism/democracy/communism blocks that form. It would likely work like that but in space. Except committing to an ideology would have real effects on the empire. It will be interesting how all the little modifiers to economy and diplomacy will be in the end. Or in overhaul mods, for instance Zro should provide extra happiness to POPs with psychic ability. Or what effect it might have on espionage if that is ever in an update.
Though i cannot really get a grip on why psionics have anything to do with blindly believing superstitial nonsense.
If psioincs is a thing that is researchable which implies >>scientificly<< researchable I do not understand why it should be connected in any way with spiritualists aka religious beings.
Looking over at Babylon 5 I don´t see in any way that these Psi Corps guys are in any way spiritual, they just are psionicly gifted which makes them see themselves as some kind of super humans looking down on the rest of humanity waiting for the right time to strike and take over like some kind of "Space SS". Nothing spiritual there from my point of view.
EDIT: The only possible explanation (in Stellaris) would be, that the gene giving someone the psionic talent also makes them more open to believe anything another person tells them without giving any facts. Hence making them more likely to be spiritual to begin with...
If psioincs is a thing that is researchable which implies >>scientificly<< researchable I do not understand why it should be connected in any way with spiritualists aka religious beings.
Looking over at Babylon 5 I don´t see in any way that these Psi Corps guys are in any way spiritual, they just are psionicly gifted which makes them see themselves as some kind of super humans looking down on the rest of humanity waiting for the right time to strike and take over like some kind of "Space SS". Nothing spiritual there from my point of view.
EDIT: The only possible explanation (in Stellaris) would be, that the gene giving someone the psionic talent also makes them more open to believe anything another person tells them without giving any facts. Hence making them more likely to be spiritual to begin with...
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Your prejudice against religion is showing. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion, what you are describing is a religion. Psionics as it is generally portrayed in sci-fi is connected to a higher dimension or a force in the universe that would be described as divine or from a supernatural source. What is the supernatural source is the domain of religion, typically organized religion. Recognizing this spiritual element in life is not the same as becoming a Muslim or Christian. Like recognizing the force in Star Wars doesn't immediately make you a Sith or a Jedi. Unfortunately there's never been a religion that focuses on honing psionic ability, in fact most religions have done the opposite of that. However in Stellaris I imagine the heads of the theocratic governments to be gifted in visions, or voices, or synchronictic insight that is generally positive and beneficial, at least in relation to others of their species, and so far as you can pretend like their from a divine origin and not just immense intellect, political cunning, and determination like almost all world leaders.
You are right and I do not make a secret about my position on religion. The point is even if spirituality and religion is not the same thing. It is portrait in the same way in game. Tell me who are those "Divine?" or these old gods in that shrine event chain. There is no god without a religion. Seeing it from a scientific point of view there might be powerful entities but no gods. Calling something a god is making a statement in itself.
If anything in the Stellaris world is a god it's the inter dimensional invaders and these new whisperers in the ascension perks. Religion and spirituality often include gods, or if you give it enough time they do, if we were to meet entities claiming to be from other dimensions and with advanced knowledge many people would mistake them for gods. But I suppose that's the difference between what religion and spirituality is in the past and what it can be in the future. It seems like that's exactly what the psychic ascension perk is hinting at. Where you don't grovel to beings despite how foreign their origins are but striking deals with them as peers and mastering their knowledge of manipulating reality so you're more on even playing field (and superior to any local neighbors and potential competition).
I guess it boils down to whether or not you put any credibility to the various studies on psi-phenomenon and parapsychology. Considering how extensively it has been studied in the past few decades, and how long it was studied semi-secretly for decades before that by the governments in the world (and still do). Plus all the anecdotes of it going on since the beginning of written history. The results from everything I read about the Standford Research Institute studies (sponsered by the CIA for nearly a decade), studies done by the Soviets, Michael Persinger, etc has at best offered a slight significant effect and offer a tantalizing hope for future developments in psychic abilities. Most of the time it varies heavily by individual with a slight to nonexistent practice effect. Essentially, I'm more open to it than you but I was you back in highschool. I understand why a strict materialist atheist would immediately recoil at the hint of anything I've posted so far. The very notion of any of this implies action at a distance and things going on that never include the movement of limbs to accomplish. A reality that is completely disconnected from this reality, flagrantly taunting your "rational" thinking.
In the end of the day it could be all chalked up to science though, Michael Persinger in particular advocates that all these abilities are done through magnetic waves. Aside from being able to demonstrate strange magnetic fields and abnormal brain activity during the psi-phenomenon the exact mechanism(s) involved have not been pinned down. Personally, I believe its due to something akin to "soul".
I totally agree on this.
I do not know if psionics will ever be a thing in reality. And I won´t make an assumption on this. But in Stellaris its existence is a fact. It is researchable and based on science. The difference between science and religion is it does not matter if you believe in science or not. Take gravity for example. If you jump you will fall down to the earth again if you believe in gravity or not.
So in any case i can assume that even fanatic spiritualists in Stellaris base what they do on science and not mere believes. They wouldn´t be flying through space otherwise. On the other hand it does not take many smart people to invent things based on science to be then used by many more less smart people whithout understanding how it works. Take a computer for example I have to put myself in the mass of people using them without being able to tell exactly how they work.
How would you explain what a fanatical spiritualistic being is? Without the idea of religion with simply means believing in a higher being you cannot explain I have a hard time grasping how else to describe this ethos.
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Excellent question and I did address that in the previous comment. But this is a great opportunity to expand. So, I'm unsure how much you know about the famous scientists of the past and occultism, psychedelic drug use, and spirituality. My mind is racing with examples but I'll try to stay coherent. Here's a list of major discoveries made in dreams alone after a 1 second google search
https://www.famousscientists.org/7-great-examples-of-scientific-discoveries-made-in-dreams/
So there's that, dreams revealing discoveries. Basic ass magic in my opinion, at the very least the oldest supernatural phenomenon. Furthermore, psychedelic drugs (some of which I believe even exist because they offer humans a psionic stimulant) have also resulted in discoveries. Either the epiphany happens during the trip or interviews years later, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson and other CEOs and leaders of industry attribute LSD use to their success. To this day high-profile people take trips to Peru for Ayahuasca ceremonies. Here's another article to satisfy your curiosity
http://www.ranker.com/list/discoveries-made-by-people-on-drugs/swiperight
Terence McKenna, a huge proponent of the psychedelic experience, and who I consider my prophet, has talked in depth on this topic. I highly suggest searching him on youtube because he can shed more light on all this better than I can. One of his major theories is the stoned ape theory, he explains the rapid expansion of the hominid cranial capacity (supposedly the most complex change in a short time to any major organ of any species that we have documented) to the long-term use of psilocybin cubensis, magic mushrooms. Although he doesn't touch on psionics, I think it's important in the general advancement and progression of our species.
But I mean all of that can kind of be chalked up to something sciency. However, what is least talked about in history is how the majority of the most influential scientists were occultists. Rene Descartes (briefly mentioned in the first article) started science while he was campaigning as a murderous mercenary across Europe, an "angel" came to him in his dream and told him that "The conquest of nature is to be achieved through measure and number". Alfred Russel Wallace would communicate with spirits. Newton was fairly open about his interest in the occult, even writing books. Carl Jung was a spiritualist. Famous physicists Rutherford and Galton have been rumoured to entertain ideas of communicating with spirits in private. Tesla of course is pretty famous for his quote of receiving information that is transmitted from some unknown source in the universe. Here's another article
http://io9.gizmodo.com/10-famous-scientists-who-held-surprising-supernatural-b-1689425142
So the point behind all of this and to answer your question. There are real world examples of powerful revelations gained from spiritual pursuits and moments. Now everything I've outlined relates to discoveries, perhaps I would have been better off to find examples of a spiritually inspired governance. But there's a lack of those examples, any kind of theocracy has been tied to religion and I think both of us can agree that religion has been tainted for a very long time. So they are hardly good examples. But in Stellaris, a theocracy would be led by people who are the best at accessing knowledge through the spiritual means I've described above. Either they are legitimately exceptionally talented at accessing these psionic abilities (unlike the feeble and infrequent psi events that happen to most humans) or are just good at pretending at it but are actually really smart and manipulative (like most of the clergy does now, or when world leaders pretend to be religious or care about an issue to gain support). Unfortunately being a sneaky little prick is helpful regardless of your government type.
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Psi in stellaris might be something like "Clap Your Hands If You Believe" supernatural power, wherein enough belief in something will cause things to happen..
I don´t agree. If it was just "Clap your hands if YOU believe it" psi armies would have no actual effect on the enemy. They might believe they have abilities but that does not give them any. So they really have to have abilities to begin with which are researchable and based on actual facts. So in the end it is nothing supernatural because it is based on and explained by science.
Ok, I get what you mean. But as I see it these are a very little part of very many people abusing drugs. Some of them might experience a mind widening effect while being high on these drugs - others (the big majority) just ruin their lives that way. So in the end they were on drugs and had some good ideas (resulting from the state of their mind in that moment), which later had to be proofed with facts. Nothing supernatural so far. Even though they might believe it was. But ok I get your point that they do believe this - supernatural event - was the reason for their ideas.
Eh, we'll have to disagree there, even though that one article lumps in cocaine. I think only a handful of substances are "psionic stimulants". LSD, psilocybin, and DMT being prominent ones and psychedelics are only a fraction of the different methods of divination and revelation that have been used in real life. And of course, like all things good people and bad people can get involved in all of this. Everyone knows the evil elements of occultism. Human sacrifice, blood magic, or worse.
Regardles of whatever kind of drug you use it changes the way your brain reacts compared to the way it would do without the drug. So the way you perceive reality changes but that does not change reality itself. No question, there are people experiencing weird things, but all evidence leads to the conclusion that this happens inside of the brain and not in connection to any supernatural factors.
It makes sense than psiconics is a spiritual related field. While you can argue that if psy powers are real then you will be able to explain them and proove their existance just by employing hard science at some point in the future (which I think that might be the case), it is very likely that said psy capacities will make you more spiritual attuned, for spirituality is all about conscience and more importantly, it is heavily perception-related.
This is something that fiction authors and atheist tends to get wrong: while religions revolve around rituals, organizations and dogmas, people doesn't become theist due to being convinced, or because it makes sense, nor due to fear of death. We "feel" a divine presence. Or percieve it, so to speak. And that is very likely due to how our ape brains are designed (and this have been pointed out by some scientists, too). That doesn't mean that believers can hear " God's voice" or something as ridiculous as that, it is something far more subtle and akin to an automatic, ever recurring pattern search.
Knowing this, now imagine the effect that heightened perception, telepathy and a global consciousness might operate into the individual's spiritual tendencies. Any telepath would turn religious as f**k for sure. So yes, it makes 100% sense that psiconics is tied to spirituality.
This is something that fiction authors and atheist tends to get wrong: while religions revolve around rituals, organizations and dogmas, people doesn't become theist due to being convinced, or because it makes sense, nor due to fear of death. We "feel" a divine presence. Or percieve it, so to speak. And that is very likely due to how our ape brains are designed (and this have been pointed out by some scientists, too). That doesn't mean that believers can hear " God's voice" or something as ridiculous as that, it is something far more subtle and akin to an automatic, ever recurring pattern search.
Knowing this, now imagine the effect that heightened perception, telepathy and a global consciousness might operate into the individual's spiritual tendencies. Any telepath would turn religious as f**k for sure. So yes, it makes 100% sense that psiconics is tied to spirituality.
Ok, that was a very compelling argument. It makes sense that way, though it seems to collide with the Psi Corps thing which does not look very spiritual at all - but as mentioned by you, sci fi authors might get it wrong themselves.