Twitter teaser 06/10 - East India Company as Great Power?

[Muezzinzade]

The mystery of Spain not being Great Power, that some were wondering about, appears to be solved. In the new twitter teaser we see East India Company on 8th place in the world ranking. This appears to be a little problematic. Does it mean they are a great power? Should puppet be able to become a great power? Looks a bit strange in the case of East India Company at the beginning of Victoria...

 

[makapse]

EIC was a independent entity at the start of Vic and only was formally absolved and india came under UK after the sepoy rebellion in 1857. And unified india and china were always going to be great power whenever they existed in vic2

 

[Caylon]

The mystery of Spain not being Great Power, that some were wondering about, appears to be solved. In the new twitter teaser we see East India Company on 8th place in the world ranking. This appears to be a little problematic. Does it mean they are a great power? Should puppet be able to become a great power? Looks a bit strange in the case of East India Company at the beginning of Victoria...

The EIC is probably not a great power. You can see its flag does not have the golden frame that the higher ranked countries have.
I believe it has been stated before that the number of great powers in vic3 is not fixed anymore, so rank 8 is not necessarily a great power.

 

[JKComposer]

They aren't a great power - the countries with golden outlines are great powers (the number of great powers will vary throughout the game - any country with enough prestige/points relative to the number one power will be a great power). Though I'm guessing there may also be a barrier that would make subject nations blocked from becoming a great power.

 

[Al-Khalidi]

EIC was a independent entity at the start of Vic and only was formally absolved and india came under UK after the sepoy rebellion in 1857. And unified india and china were always going to be great power whenever they existed in vic2

Disagree, china would never be a GP unless westernized. Im not too interested in India at that era but idea of East India Company being something else than british puppet looks weird to me.

As for East India Company being GP we can see that they aren't! Teaser interestingly shows a golden line around seven flags of countries and EIC isn't one of them. We have 7 GPs at start

 

[Heatth]

The devs have already revealed in the past that there isn't a set number of Great Power anymore, there might be more or less than 8, so there being only 7 at the start is not that much of a surprise.

 

[Arbus]

Yes, the EIC does not start as a Great Power but the questions are:

1. Can a puppet become a Great Power?
2. Do puppet occupy Great Power slots, even if they can't become GP themselves?

On the second point, suppose Canada as a UK puppet becomes strong enough to be included in the GP rank. Suppose Australia does too. This would give the UK not only one GP slot, plus eliminate 3 other potential GP rivals. I hope this is not the case.

 

[BrytonJSwan]

Another change from Victoria 2 I think is interesting is that Prussia has been shifted down from the 4th to the 7th greatest power. I have no idea whether this is more or less accurate to history, although we also don't really know what the exact criteria is for great powers is in this game so that makes it a bit harder to judge changes like this.

 

[Heatth]

2. Do puppet occupy Great Power slots, even if they can't become GP themselves?

From what I understand there is no such a thing as a "Great Power Slot" anymore. Countries with over X amount of score are GP and X depends on the global average (meaning it changes over the game). The number of GP then depends on how concentrated or spread out score is in a particular game, but it doesn't follow any sort of "slot" logic.

About what happens if a subject country is over the threshold is anyone's guess though. I wonder if that is the case with the EIC.

 

[Nikolai]

You forgot to attach the tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445750702362464256

 

[Muezzinzade]

Another change from Victoria 2 I think is interesting is that Prussia has been shifted down from the 4th to the 7th greatest power. I have no idea whether this is more or less accurate to history, although we also don't really know what the exact criteria is for great powers is in this game so that makes it a bit harder to judge changes like this.

Yes, this is an interesting point, Prussia is lower than Ottomans now which makes me think that general population number must be a thing (I see nothing else that would make Ottomans higher than Prussia...)

Yes, the EIC does not start as a Great Power but the questions are:

1. Can a puppet become a Great Power?
2. Do puppet occupy Great Power slots, even if they can't become GP themselves?

On the second point, suppose Canada as a UK puppet becomes strong enough to be included in the GP rank. Suppose Australia does too. This would give the UK not only one GP slot, plus eliminate 3 other potential GP rivals. I hope this is not the case.

I think in Vic2 it was possible so here might be possible too. Idk about any historical example of such thing happening, but on the other hand it perhaps shouldn't be impossible if a puppet suddenly gets very large industry or army. But maybe that should lead to event where puppet owner could declare war or something, shouldn't just happen peacefully.

 

[unmerged(760025)]

Great power or not, am I really the only one to be weirded out by the fact that the East India Company is considered the 8th most powerful nation at the beginning of the game ?

 

[Nikolai]

Remember folks that in V3 there is no set amount of Great Powers. In this screenshots there's seven (golden border on their flags).

 

[Nikolai]

Assumed that pretty much everyone here checks those themselves

Always easier with something to reference in the thread itself.

 

[Al-Khalidi]

Great power or not, am I really the only one to be weirded out by the fact that the East India Company is considered the 8th most powerful nation at the beginning of the game ?

I agree, its pretty weird, hopefully they just have it because of big undeveloped gdp that will become increasingly meaningless as nations industrialize.
I suppose they are recognized (as british puppet) and china isn't and that's why we see them so high.

 

[makapse]

Yes, this is an interesting point, Prussia is lower than Ottomans now which makes me think that general population number must be a thing (I see nothing else that would make Ottomans higher than Prussia...)

I think in Vic2 it was possible so here might be possible too. Idk about any historical example of such thing happening, but on the other hand it perhaps shouldn't be impossible if a puppet suddenly gets very large industry or army. But maybe that should lead to event where puppet owner could declare war or something, shouldn't just happen peacefully.

Population should not have that much of an effect, else Qing China should also be on that list somewhere unless they already have negative prestige from all the humiliation they have been suffering

 

[Willem IV]

As Belgium is out of the top 10 (9th in V2) en the Netherlands went up from 13th to 10th. The population of European Netherlands was lower than that of Belgium, so I would assume that their colonies counted somehow.

 

[Al-Khalidi]

You forgot to attach the tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445750702362464256

Another interesting thing to wonder about is from which country's perspective is this screenshot made. Dutch east indies maybe?

 

[Wolfgang Schmidt]

Another interesting thing to wonder about is from which country's perspective is this screenshot made. Dutch east indies maybe?

Looking at bad relations with Spain, it could be a South American country...

 

[Skales]

Doubtful. If the East India Company were so great, why wasn't there a West India Company?