-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
counters
Looks like the counters are 3d-ish. the stack looks like its in "perspective", wich ads a nice visual hight to the stack.
I like the counters very much.
Looks like the counters are 3d-ish. the stack looks like its in "perspective", wich ads a nice visual hight to the stack.
I like the counters very much.
The counters have rivettes! I would have loved to play my old board games with metal-stamped counters with rivettes. Very nice touch.
- Dec 14, 1999
- 18.402
- 38.945
its kind of the idea.. the artist wanted it to look like you had high quality metal counters for a deluxe-edition boardgame.
In 1939, the panzer divisions had two regiments of panzers and a panzer brigade command. Thats over 250 tanks. After the lessons of Poland, Germany reduced a panzer division to 1 regiment of panzers. As you say 126-150 panzers. Until, Hitler wanted more panzer divisions on paper, reducing panzer strength to ~110 tanks.
Keep up the great work Paradox!
Which makes the use of the support brigades questionable at best and useless at worst. Just like HoI2.
I understand the idea of abstracting signal, police, supply, etc. companies, but not the organic artillery. In that other thread that you mention, zeekater, King did not mention what level he was talking about. Perhaps he meant the battalion and company level. Abstracting the artillery into line regiments where it does not belong, when it is an available brigade, seems like an over-simplification. Why not have the arty regiment in the OOB? From that same thread, Johan gave us one of his sources for the 3.PD OOB...
http://s13.invisionfree.com/3rd_Panzer_Division/ar/t82.htm
"3rd Panzer Division also known as 3rd Panzer Brigade "Berlin" was composed of 5th Panzer Regiment "Wundsdorf" stationed in Wunsdorf and 6th Panzer Regiment (later known as "Neuruppin") stationed in Zossen. This division was also composed of 3rd Motorized Brigade "Eberswalde" (with 3rd Motorcycle Battalion "Freiewalde"), 3rd Reconnaissance Company and 75th Artillery Regiment "Eberswalde" ..."
When we have the arty brigade available as a buildable unit, why can't it be added as a true part of the division, unabstracted? That level of abstraction is taking one step back after taking two forward.
It is a true part of the divisions. If you wan't large amount of artillery in all your divisions its not hard to add it somewhere 1936-39 right?
The other way around is much harder.
The problem is other players, that might want AA, or Engineers or AT or other support brigades instead of extra artillery. If all standard divisions already have artillery they will be full (IE 4 brigades) then we will end up with alot of useless Arty brigades, or even more useless Artillery only divisions.
I want to add most off my support myself, not because of realism but because of gameplay considerations.
Except that they've already mentioned that attachment brigades like Art or AT or whatever don't take up frontage space that would be used by the other brigades and will help their division fight and thus never be in reserve.
So for example, if the front is 12 wide, and it's 4 divisions with 3 regiments plus ART versus 4 divisions all with standard regiment, the one with the enhanced ART brigade would cause many more casualties every round because they would be able to bring ALL their guns to bear, while their opponent would have 4 regiments stuck in reserve unable to engage. The group with 4 regiments in reserve however would still be able to cycle units in and out, so they would last longer in the battle, but they would in the end cause less casualties and over all be less effective.
It's a good balance between a human wave doctrine and a more western approach.
Yup, and the original OOB of the German army in the scenarios won't have any AT or AC brigades then. I don't know about any country that used those in large 'support brigades'. The Russians probably had some AT brigades, they liked to put a lot of guns together in formations
And, since it was an artillery REGIMENT that all german divisions had, if they are cutting at that level, it also means germany won't have any SP rocket art, rocket artillery and SP artillery only if they represent stugs. Artillery, AA, ENG and TD were available as brigades.
Unless of course if all types have different levels of abstraction.
I can only quote what he said, it was in response to a post that was a quote of a response about artillery regiments
Could be because at that level it isn't a strategic choice, to build any divisions without divisional artillery
This is a very good point, and a nice way for HOI3 to represent reality.
Let's just hope that the omission of the artillery regiment in the 3rd Pz Divs structure is an alpha thing.
I agree with Bullfrog, if you put artillery in the game you gotta use it. Even if all units had to have artillery,you still need to represent it as an entity at least from an upgrade p.o.v. As the war progressed the artillery might not have gotten heavier than already existing calibers but it did get faster and more accurate.
I agree with Bullfrog, if you put artillery in the game you gotta use it. Even if all units had to have artillery,you still need to represent it as an entity at least from an upgrade p.o.v. As the war progressed the artillery might not have gotten heavier than already existing calibers but it did get faster and more accurate.
Artillery IS already represented!
Look at the first tech screenshot where you can see that one upgradeable part of an infantry brigade is "Light artillery" and another is "Small arms".
Plain Infantry without any artillery brigade will still have their artillery upgraded when you research it.
There is no such upgradeable part in the panzer brigade though...
So the divisional (SP) artillery of that panzer brigade will not upgrade no matter how much you research in the SP art field.
Unless research in the SP art field gives a bonus to the panzer brigades, without having the models visible. The tech would then give "+1 soft attack to armor brigade, mech,..." for example.
IMO it would be better to have all sorts of equipment shown in the division. Of course, the ones in the screenshot are the most important ones, the components of the tank and your doctrines. And you can still scroll down in the screenshot so there are more components, but the motorized infantry brigade doesn't have enough components to represent all divisional assets.
An armor brigade also had SP artillery, TD, ENG, MP, AA and AC assets, along with infantry weapons. So research into those field would make armor brigades better too. Otherwise the germans can have all the research advantage in AT guns they want, since they won't have AT brigades in their OOB, they won't get any benefit from that research.
As with everything it could be that the devs already took this into account
But the panzer divisions light artillery assests might be in the motorized infantry part. We don't know this yet since that part of the screenshot is covered and it can't be seen anywhere in dev diarys.
It would make some sense to me since this allows for more fun stats and specialization on our tanks.
I think I agree with you here. If arty was comprised of a distinct unit in the divisional makeup then it should be represented as such in game. I dont want to have to build a division of 2 Panzer+1 Mot and then have to add extra arty, which in game terms would make the unit 'over-strength'
A completely seperate question. Will we be able to deploy an under-strength 'division' comprised of a single brigade?
I don't think we have heard about a minimum strength of divisions yet. We do know that a "division" is the smallest unit that can be deployed.
The motorized infantry only has 6 components though. Not enough to account for all divisional assets.
The last 2 are probably doctrines and from the jan28 screenshot 4 of those components are:
These don't seem to represent regular artillery or regular AT guns (more mortars/infantry guns and bazookas/panzerschrecks/AT rifles).
A later screenshot of the tech screen showed 'artillery barrell and ammunition' and 'artillery carriage and sights', so these represent the normal artillery.
So my guess is that AT research doesn't influence regular divisions unless you equip them with an entire AT brigade. Same for the other divisional assets.
Right now you research the equipment of each brigade seperatly, while in fact some equipment would be used by more then 1 brigade and some would be used just by one brigade type.
Example: researching a new PaK40 this will have an influence on all infantry brigade types as well as the AT brigade. Researching a new panzerfaust only influences infantry types.