Twitter: Partisans vs. Patriots vs. Nationalists

[Porkman]

So according to the twitter their will be four kinds of partisans appearing for different reasons.

Partisans, Patriots, Nationalists, and disorganized rabble.

My question is what will define the differences?

Partisans - will these be like the current game and be generic rebels, or will they actually be like the literal meaning of the word and mean fighters for a political party?

Patriots - My guess is they would appear in occupied territories, maybe as part of a government in exile. Though my question is what makes them different from Nationalists?

Nationalists - Are these going to appear only when there is the possibility of a free nation that doesn't exist (colonial revolts, the balkans). What if the nation is annexed but still has a Government in exile, are those Polish partisans, patriots. or nationalists?

Will they just be just right wing partisans that anyone can use. So for example the spanish civil war would be fought between the NAtionalists and the Republicans, but the Nationalists would have "nationalist" partisans and the Republicans would have "partisan" or "Patriot" partisans

What will the differences be?


Disorganized Rabble - this one seems fairly easy to understand.

 

[unmerged(135152)]

From EU3: Patriots defect, nationalists form their own country.

And Partisans are probably somewhat "unique" units (Otherwise they will be identical to patriots afaik). Except of course if the player has direct control over one group (Partisans more likely).

 

[Will Lucky]

It's very Likely the Nationalists/Patriots will be part of the Governments in Exile Idea.

 

[TheLand]

And there was I hoping that we'd be able to see Communist uprisings....

 

[Hayden]

And there was I hoping that we'd be able to see Communist uprisings....

...they have disorganized rabble...

 

[Raczynski]

...they have disorganized rabble...

The communist partisans were anything but disorganized

 

[unmerged(131221)]

So in case of Poland:
- before war there are Ukrainian Nationalists in the east.
- when war goes on Patriots will be fighting fo GIE.
- who will be fighting for commies side? disorganized rabble? :rofl:

Partisants? arent all of them partisants...

PI must say more or we never guess alone.

 

[Porkman]

The communist partisans were anything but disorganized

Agreed, look at the PLA in China or tito's guys in yugoslavia. Disorganized rabble would probably be the unsponsored partisans.

 

[wilcoxchar]

I'm guessing we get a dev. diary on this tomorrow.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

So in case of Poland:
- before war there are Ukrainian Nationalists in the east.
- when war goes on Patriots will be fighting fo GIE.
- who will be fighting for commies side? disorganized rabble? :rofl:

Partisants? arent all of them partisants...

PI must say more or we never guess alone.

I feel this is another forest versus woods issue. Terms are being used that are nearly interchangeable.


Partisan is simply a term referring to units fighting behind enemy lines usually in opposition to occupation. Often, this is used specifically for WWII.

A Nationalist would be simply fighting for your country. It could refer to partisans (Polish partisans fighting Germany would be Polish Nationalists and Polish Partisans). I believe in EU3 this was used to refer to a general uprising against the current rulers as opposed to those wishing to break up the country.

A patriot is most often seen as connected to the American Revolution and would be a breakaway faction of some kind. However, these could also be considered nationalists. For example, an uprising in India would fit with patriots but they would be generally fighting for Indian self-rule and thus Nationalists.


I'm sure the game will create clear distinctions but they're less intuitive than I'd like personally.

 

[Xz2]

Well commies should be partisan right? didnt soviet call there friends on other places partisans? That would make sense to me at least

 

[unmerged(135152)]

You're all missing the point here. There are already both patriots and nationalists in EU3:IN. The only difference between the two is that one group (nationalists) declare independence and form a new state after succesfully taking over a province or group of provinces. Patriots on the other hand defect to some other country. The whole idea was to remove the "generic" rebels of the old EU games (including HOI2). I see no reason why this wouldn't be the same for HOI3. Partisans would therefore, most likely, be a different type of rebellion, possibly one that the player could control himself. And rabble would be the same thing as "peasant revolts" in EU3.

An example: Luxemburg is annexed by Germany in 1936. After that a revolt spawns and takes over the province. What happens depends on the type of rebels:
1.Nationalist rebellion will declare independence from Germany as Luxemburg.
2.French Patriots will defect from Germany to France.
3.Disorganized rabble will occcupy the province adding a modifier to it increasing consumer goods demand for example.

And partisans most likely won't appear there in any case (I would imagine that you have to support them for them to appear and in that case you have some control over them, otherwise they would be completely identical to patriots).

 

[Porkman]

PARTISAN - an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, esp. a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.

The definition at it most literal implies that the fighter have to be aligned with a political party to be true partisans.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

You're all missing the point here. There are already both patriots and nationalists in EU3:IN. The only difference between the two is that one group (nationalists) declare independence and form a new state after succesfully taking over a province or group of provinces. Patriots on the other hand defect to some other country. The whole idea was to remove the "generic" rebels of the old EU games (including HOI2). I see no reason why this wouldn't be the same for HOI3. Partisans would therefore, most likely, be a different type of rebellion, possibly one that the player could control himself. And rabble would be the same thing as "peasant revolts" in EU3.

An example: Luxemburg is annexed by Germany in 1936. After that a revolt spawns and takes over the province. What happens depends on the type of rebels:
1.Nationalist rebellion will declare independence from Germany as Luxemburg.
2.French Patriots will defect from Germany to France.
3.Disorganized rabble will occcupy the province adding a modifier to it increasing consumer goods demand for example.

And partisans most likely won't appear there in any case (I would imagine that you have to support them for them to appear and in that case you have some control over them, otherwise they would be completely identical to patriots).

The scope of EU3 is 400 years. The scope of WWII is 10 years at best. Thus, I don't think the two systems should really look anything like each other.

I think that their should be only three types:

Nationalist Partisans - Those that want to reinstall the status quo.
Breakaway Partisans - Those that want to change the status quo (for whatever reason political, geographic differences, etc.)
Rabble - Random PITA

Everything would fit into these three categories. I'm not sure what the fourth PI category adds?

 

[Zaki]

In Yugoslavia, a term partisan was reserved for communist guerilla. There were those other guys who were loyal to gov in exile. They were closest to nationalists group, in my opinion. Those two movements fought each other. The nationalists went so far in their hatred that they even collaborated with occupying (mostly Italian) forces, to get some help for their cause. I wonder if it will be possible to have such a situation in the HoI3.

 

[unmerged(123225)]

As one of the above poster mentioned:
-Nationalists aim to form their own country that has been annexed. (eg. Ukraine nationalists)
-Patriots try to defect the province they take over to the 'rightful' owner.

As for the other two I'm not sure, but my best guess is:
-Partisans: Fighters against the enemy within occupied territories as opposed to annexed territories which are represented by the above two.
-Disorganized rabble: Something like peasants in EU3 when dissent is too high.

I really don't understand why Disorganized rabble is in though. This wasn't medieval times where people picked up pitchforks to go apeshit without any political cause.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

As one of the above poster mentioned:
I really don't understand why Disorganized rabble is in though. This wasn't medieval times where people picked up pitchforks to go apeshit without any political cause.

This made me laugh. :rofl:


I look forward to Paradox's description of these but I hope that they're open to changing the terminology.

 

[Schnitzelwurst]

I could imagen this:

As one of the above poster mentioned:
-Nationalists aim to form their own country that has been annexed. (eg. Ukraine nationalists)
-Patriots try to defect the province they take over to the 'rightful' owner.

partisans could maybe some militia units which spawn like in HOI II but could be controled by a country..

for example: Germany invades France. During fighting some milita units (the partisans) are spawning und france could control them as would they be their own units (maybe with some restrictions).

and disorganized rabble could be the same, but they would be controlled by the AI and would do nothing except beeing annoying like the partisans in HOI II :rofl:

 

[unmerged(123225)]

After giving it much though I think the best set up would be:
-Nationalists
-Partisans: who fight behind enemy lines in occupied territories
-Rebels: political opposition to the ruling party or regime

Patriots are ridiculous, are we supposed to believe that Spanish patriots will revolt in Gibraltar? I want one example of a division sized patriot movement during this time frame. And as for disorganized rebels, I already expressed my views.

 

[Vladislav]

Here's my guess, and let's see if I'm right:

Partisans: Rebels with a political agenda (e.g. "German Communist partisans," "Soviet Liberal partisans")
Nationalists: Spawn in cores of a country that no longer exists
Patriots: Spawn in cores of one country within another country's territory
Disorganized rabble: Generic rebels

But I wonder, will nationalists have a certain political ideology too? What will determine the ideology of a newly-created nation? I hope we see, for example, "Croatian fascist nationalists."