• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(12412)

Captain
Dec 5, 2002
372
0
Visit site
I went through and doubled the needs for most crop-based products for citizens (i.e. tea, cattle, fish, etc.), and doubled the prices of them too. I left the farmer needs for food products as they were originally, to simulate farmers being able to provide for themselves (and to make it easier for agrarian economies to get by). I adjusted the prices on the factory goods that use these products. I also made a few other tweaks (halved the glass need for wineries and distillers, made fabric take 2 cotton 1 wool, etc.), and then loaded up a game as Mexico.

Not surprisingly, I was making more money than before - I still had to crank up taxes, but I was making a profit at app. 65%-70% taxes and only lowering education, defense spending, and crime fighting about 50%. The surplus on the world market for most of these goods still stuck at 10000 - a good sign, I think, that production still outstrips demand with these changes at the beginning of the game.

I then loaded up the 1914 scenario. Mexico was profitable without making any changes to the budget at all except raising tarriffs. Fish, cattle, tea, and some other goods got up to the high 9000s on the stockpile and then would not go higher. Some products, like wool (which I did not increase the pop need on, but did add as an ingredient for fabric) hovered around 1200.

I'm thinking these changes might make the game a little more realistic. If Mexico can make money without industrializing, and if there's just enough of most of the food resources at the levels of population in the 1914 scenario, that might fix overpopulation as well. I don't know what exactly will happen to a country that gets overpopulated, though - I expect mass emigration and lots of revolts and political changes.

I'll be starting a new GC with these new rules, I'll keep y'all updated on how it works out.
 

unmerged(12412)

Captain
Dec 5, 2002
372
0
Visit site
I loaded up a 1918 game I played from 1836. Looks like I haven't quite found the right balance.

Coffee, tobacco, and tea still have far less demand than they do supply, even after doubling of needs. Opium as well. What I would like to be able to do on these would be reduce the output significantly and increase the price proportionally.

Here's what it was for coffee in my game.

Coffee Demand - 1778
Coffee Supply - 10039

If one could reduce the output of coffee plantations by 2/3, triple the price, and double the consumer need for coffee, it would be balanced.


Two things that I noticed shortages of now are wine and fruit.

Wine Demand - 1456
Wine Supply - 74
Fruit Demand - 1489
Fruit Supply - 541

Since fruit was widely unavailable during most of this time period, a fruit shortage like that is not that bad. Wine needs to be made more profitable, maybe reduce the fruit need and increase the price on the finished product some more, to encourage those who have fruit to use some for wine. I may tune back the pop need for fruit.

Now, a few of these things are getting close, and they are the ones I wanted to balance most - grain and fish.

Grain Demand - 1536
Grain Supply - 1769
Fish Demand - 967
Fish Supply - 1466

I may increase the amount of fish needed for canned food factories, since fish has traditionally been something we can (sardines, tuna, etc.). Again, I wish there was a way to reduce output instead of increasing needs.

Anyway, I'm getting closer to what I would like, but it still needs more work.
 

unmerged(10894)

Rusty, Old EU2MPer
Sep 4, 2002
3.001
0
Hehe in the main forum this will get more traffic anyway thsan the mod forum imho. It seems by your investigations that it really does need to be tweaked quite a bit, and your suggestins seem good so far. :)
 

Cerber

Sergeant
36 Badges
Nov 28, 2003
71
2
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars II
I was trying to changed the prices too, but now i have many other problems. For example in 1836 scenario I have huge shortage of machine parts (i doubled the price of them two times).
It seems that producting other products is more profitable. So I think there are needed same modifications in game logic.
 

unmerged(12412)

Captain
Dec 5, 2002
372
0
Visit site
You have to be careful with raising the prices of some goods - your POPs need to be able to afford it. You also can't raise the price of a raw material without considering how that effects manufactured goods it is used for.

The main thing I keep wanting is a way to reduce RGO production - that is so much better than increasing the need, which makes me nervous about causing too much trouble from lack of goods. It certainly looks like there is room for change, though. I was afraid after my changes I would see drastic shortages and starving POPs.
 

unmerged(14156)

Private
Jan 29, 2003
14
0
Visit site
I agree. In fact, I've often thought the outputs of certain RGOs - such as fish, cattle, grain etc - are pathetically low when you consider the low price and large number of workers they tie up. It's insane to watch over 200 000 farmers produce less than 0.5 units of grain per day (each unit selling for a poultry 80 pence or so), even if there isn't any railroad in the province.
 

DGuller

Lt. General
32 Badges
Feb 18, 2003
1.238
251
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
The supply thing in the ledger doesn't give you the whole picture. It regards WM stockpile as supply, so that's why you got 10000+ supply numbers. To get the true difference, buy up 1000 of the goods at once, and see what's the daily increase in WM stockpiles. I hope Paradox will fix up the ledger in that regard to make this whole information gathering easier.

Also, is it possible to add products demanded to everyday or luxury basket? If you add more grain/tea/coffee, and large amounts of them, to the other two baskets, you would still increase worldwide demand without starving some peasants. To make food economies work right, there has to be a shortage of food. If the current prestige-first concept of world market is kept, some of the agrarian countries with low prestige wouldn't be able to buy grain and would be forced to sustain themselves, or have their population starve.
 

unmerged(12412)

Captain
Dec 5, 2002
372
0
Visit site
Originally posted by DGuller

Also, is it possible to add products demanded to everyday or luxury basket? If you add more grain/tea/coffee, and large amounts of them, to the other two baskets, you would still increase worldwide demand without starving some peasants. To make food economies work right, there has to be a shortage of food. If the current prestige-first concept of world market is kept, some of the agrarian countries with low prestige wouldn't be able to buy grain and would be forced to sustain themselves, or have their population starve.

Yes, that is possible, and a really good idea. I've already added some products, but I didn't consider the idea of doubling up and putting food in the everyday-need and the luxury-need.
 
Nov 15, 2003
674
0
www.sanguo-online.com
very good way to decrease the overall grain production is to add fertilizer need for grain producing. Even very small ammounts, let's say - 0.05 fertilizer per 1 grain unit produce good results.

You can find this implementation from my mod...but before release i need to do more testing(there are some bad sideeffects when using this method).
 

unmerged(12412)

Captain
Dec 5, 2002
372
0
Visit site
Originally posted by unknown-X-
very good way to decrease the overall grain production is to add fertilizer need for grain producing. Even very small ammounts, let's say - 0.05 fertilizer per 1 grain unit produce good results.

You can find this implementation from my mod...but before release i need to do more testing(there are some bad sideeffects when using this method).

How do you add a requirement for an RGO? I didn't think it was possible, I thought they were output-only buildings. If this is not the case, can the RGOs be added to the factory-input list?
 

Grosshaus

Minister of Peace for Europe
42 Badges
May 14, 2003
10.504
76
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
RGOs demanding fertilizer would propably ruin early game grain production, provided inputs to RGOs work as inputs in factories. There just isn't enough fertilizer factories around.

Another thought came to my mind earlier today: what if farmers which have bought fertilizer would be more productive? I know this isn't moddable, but it doesn't hurt to ask developers if it's possible. It's pretty weird to use fertilizer only to weapons.
 
Nov 15, 2003
674
0
www.sanguo-online.com
Originally posted by Grosshaus
RGOs demanding fertilizer would propably ruin early game grain production, provided inputs to RGOs work as inputs in factories. There just isn't enough fertilizer factories around.

Aah...but there is a neat thing like - world makret resources in scenario.inc file. I, still have to test how long world grain production works, when world market starts, with let's say - 5000 units of fertilizer.
If fertilizer factories are a priority for some major AI countries then it ususally takes 4-8 years to eliminate the shortage problem.