TWBW: A New Hope

[fasquardon]

I fear I may have missed the boat yet again. Are there any spots still open?

Unless I've completely missed it, I don't think we've selected where we'll be yet, so you're fine.

As far as which Duchy I'd be, I would be interested in Chernigov, or possibly a Georgia that was stripped of it's King title (not all that historically inaccurate from what I've been reading).

fasquardon

 

[fasquardon]

Speaking of Dukes, I think I'd like to take Gwynnedd, if there are no objections? Alternatively I would go for Saxony.

Darn, no evil Scandanavians

fasquardon

 

[Sid Meier]

I'ld like Novgorod, if Fas doesn't mind being Georgia.

 

[fasquardon]

Well, DVIP seems to have made my CKDV rather unstable. I can't even start a game without it crashing, whereas before I hardly ever got crashes.

fasquardon

 

[Sid Meier]

Ya I would like to say that mods make any pdox game 100x more unstable.

 

[King of Men]

All right; this is new information about the DVIP. If it makes things more unstable, then it's very bad for MP. I think I'd like to change my vote on that point, then, and not use DVIP. Other opinions?

 

[ulmont]

All right; this is new information about the DVIP. If it makes things more unstable, then it's very bad for MP. I think I'd like to change my vote on that point, then, and not use DVIP. Other opinions?

I tend to agree on the stability point.

On my Duke selection...I'd like whichever of the Irish dukes holds Dublin (I can never remember). Alas, this means I'll be close to conflict with KoM, but I assure the rest of you I'll be far away with my crappy provinces and rebellious vassals (most of them so rebellious they don't even realize I'm their overlord).

 

[fasquardon]

All right; this is new information about the DVIP. If it makes things more unstable, then it's very bad for MP. I think I'd like to change my vote on that point, then, and not use DVIP. Other opinions?

Well, I'd rather not use DVIP. To be honest, I don't think it offers any game critical elements yet, and it seems to disagree with my DV.

And I'm not adverse to taking a down-graded Georgia if it makes you more comfortable Sid, so long as the other players are O.K. with turning Georgia into a Principality...

That reminds me, we should probably edit Novgorod so it doesn't inherit Kiev too easily, and also change the Byzantine succession law again (or at least have a gentleman's agreement that no player will pledge to Byzantium and eat it from the inside out...)

fasquardon

 

[ulmont]

And I'm not adverse to taking a down-graded Georgia if it makes you more comfortable Sid, so long as the other players are O.K. with turning Georgia into a Principality...

Well, I'm going to be off in Ireland getting killed by Wales, so I obviously have no complaints.

More seriously, though, the key isn't the power of the duke, it's that they don't become a king to quickly. So as long as you're willing to not claim a Georgia kingdom, it doesn't really matter.

 

[fasquardon]

Well, I'm going to be off in Ireland getting killed by Wales, so I obviously have no complaints.

More seriously, though, the key isn't the power of the duke, it's that they don't become a king to quickly. So as long as you're willing to not claim a Georgia kingdom, it doesn't really matter.

I don't think I could claim Georgia with the provs the Kingdoms starts with, but if I'm wrong about that, I still have no problem with not claiming the crown as Prince is such a cool title anyhow .

fasquardon

 

[Sid Meier]

I think that even if Novgorod "easily" inherets Kyiv theres numerous problems involved with it, although if possible I may take a more centralized duchy.

 

[Sid Meier]

Okay if it isnt above the cutoff Ild like to take Pereslavyl.

Also I find no problem with Fas taking Georgia its so small compatievely for a Kingdom that I dont think it matters.

 

[ulmont]

Also I find no problem with Fas taking Georgia its so small compatievely for a Kingdom that I dont think it matters.

The problem the Kingdom rule is designed to stop is force-vassalizing dukes...for 100 warscore you get everything, as a practical matter.

From that standpoint, Navarra as a Kingdom is a bigger threat than a bloated Apulia or Bohemia (or downgraded-Georgia) as a Duchy.

 

[Sid Meier]

I would like to restress the importance of teamspeak, if you have a microphone contact me via pm and well get ts sorted out.

If you dont have ts then no biggy come on ts anyways and you can hear us tell you that people crashed at splash screen or something like that.

 

[fasquardon]

Another possible solution, if you're feeling crowded in Russia Sid, is for the both of us to work together as a single realm, rather than each of us trying to defeat the other in order to form Russia. At the early stages of the game, we'd probably have to simulate it as an alliance, but later on you could create Rus' and I could pledge to you.

I seem to remember Pereyaslavl was above the cuttoff, but I think all the other Russian Principalities were below.

And unfortunately, I still can't get teamspeak working on my machine.

fasquardon

 

[King of Men]

I personally have no objection to Pereyaslavl for Blayne. I can edit Georgia to become a Duchy, no problem. We can perhaps have a gentleman's agreement not to pledge to any Kingdoms with elective laws? And if Blayne is taking PERE, there should be no need to edit the Novgorod inheritance situation. Otherwise I guess there is a need.

 

[King of Men]

By the way, touching fasq's comment about the lack of evil Scandinavians. I have a Cunnin' Plan, which I'll just put up in advance for comment, so there are no nasty surprises. I would still like to play the Ynglings; so what I'd like to do is to consider my non-Scandinavian Duchy a temporary position, work it up to a kingdom, and at that point switch to Norway, thus trading Kingdom for Kingdom. AAR-wise, I'll consider that however long this takes is time that Geir Jonsson is using to become a trusted advisor to King Olav; the Norway-internal events of my AAR can stand, and the foreign-policy ones like the conquest of Sweden can be moved about chronologically as required. Thus at some point this game can rejoin the TWBW AAR. In a sense it's fortunate I didn't make any screenshots.

Does anyone have objections to this course of action? I don't want to spoil anyone's game by absolutely having to have my own way about the Ynglings.

 

[King of Men]

Or alternatively, following fasq's example, I could edit out the King of Norway title and play as Duke of Akershus, which is historically not unreasonable. It's worth pointing out, though, that Olav's brother has worms and it's not unlikely Olav will inherit his Duke title, giving me enough land to recreate Norway fairly rapidly. So this is a bit of a weak spot from the viewpoint of avoiding Kingdoms.

 

[Sid Meier]

I accept King of Mens proposal.

Also fasq makes an interesting suggestion, a personal union of sorts and eliminates the issue of what to do about georgia come eu.

The problem here is that I require ownership of the lands that eventually become Rus' if were both principalities that may not be possible as a prince cannot pledge to a Prince, although it may be possible to work somethign out aka editing titles to me once we're at that stage although thats rather inconvenient as I'ld like to become Rus for example in game asap and not wait for the next session/edits.

A Prince Georgia though is fine and probably a whole lot less thinking required.

 

[FinnN]

Well, DVIP seems to have made my CKDV rather unstable. I can't even start a game without it crashing, whereas before I hardly ever got crashes.

fasquardon

I use DVIP exclusively in SP and don't have any stability problems at all - or at least no more than I had in straight DV. The CTDs are pretty random so it's probably just be a coincidence.

Have fun
Finn