TW Rome2 new family tree and character options

[alvaro]

if you are interested here it is https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-rome-ii-ancestral-update

now, I wonder, why is CA introducing this new character-focused features to such an old game?
anyhow, I hope it helps the game devs to make I:R the reference game for the period

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Honestly, they are doing many things right that paradox does wrong in their games, like meaningful buildings or not having magic buttons

When you build a city in Attila you really need to look for food, sanitation, public order, unit unlocks, etc.. When you build a province in EU4 you decide whether you want a fort there and then spam money buildings. I:R goes further in the wrong direction, by having only 4 buildings. More buildings, less slots like in total war makes for meaningful choices.

Magic buttons are cancer. If you manage to let your public order go down to -100 a province will revolt, there's no magic harsh treatment button that increases public order

Same for religion. I:R should just drop the idea of the magic button to convert pops and simply steal the religion system from Attila.

I also like the choice that comes with tech trees rather than linear tech paths

Paradox makes good games that are a lot of fun, but their obsession with "magic mana from the sky" really hurts them.

 

[Thure]

Magic buttons are cancer. If you manage to let your public order go down to -100 a province will revolt, there's no magic harsh treatment button that increases public order

That's not magic. That represents the state's effort to bring everything in order. Harsh treatment is no magic, it's doing something against it. How is this magic?! Just because there is a button fot it doesn't make it magic.

I also like the choice that comes with tech trees rather than linear tech paths

The inventions work similiar to Stellaris as far as I know. So it's way less linear than tech trees.

You completelly ignore that Total War is a completelly different genre with different focus than Grand Strategy games by Paradox.

 

[alvaro]

I dislike deeply TW stuff because it doesnt matter what clever mechanic the implement, anything can be solved by crushing the dumb AI in battle. I however agree in some points with @ElGranCapitan . Also if you look at the new features for characters in the announced patch you see many cool things and a lot of CK2 on it.

I would suffer if it all turns out that TWR2 manages to be better at character role playing than I:R.

 

[wielkiciensteam]

Current TW games are more GS than PDX. Funny and sad at the same time.

 

[alvaro]

Current TW games are more GS than PDX. Funny and sad at the same time.

GS?

 

[wielkiciensteam]

GS?

Grand Strategy

 

[alvaro]

Grand Strategy

oh!!!!
funny and sad indeed

 

[Limak]

On TW too little and too late.
And telling that TW is a GS is ridiculous maybe back then now is dumbed down as hell.
I would wait for Imperator to release before condemning it.

 

[alvaro]

On TW too little and too late.
And telling that TW is a GS is ridiculous maybe back then now is dumbed down as hell.
I would wait for Imperator to release before condemning it.

it is surprinsing though that they come up with this type of update just now.
the only title in TW that I found most satifying was Europa Batbarorum.

 

[Thrake]

I recon that Rome 2 TW is going the good way, improving on what was so horrible in previous TW (diplomacy, politics, economy,...). It also has engaging battles when Paradox is all about warfare but nothing to simulate a deep system, it's all about stacking numbers (more troops or more bonus) and praying RNGesus.

That's not magic. That represents the state's effort to bring everything in order. Harsh treatment is no magic, it's doing something against it. How is this magic?! Just because there is a button fot it doesn't make it magic.

It's magic because it's too arcady. Clic button and *poof* problem vanishes. OH GOD NO rebels will rebel tommorrow! *click* *poof* *stable country*. OH GOD NO nobody wants to work and country is ravaged by war *click* *poof* *WE at 0*.

why is CA introducing this new character-focused features to such an old game?

CK2 is older, are you questioning why they are bringing massive content with holy furry? It feels like they learned from Paradox to me, took what is good and adding it, but also from a business perspective, seing that DLC for old games can bring good money instead of just abandonning games after one year. The interesting part is just what you did mention though in that the patches do bring in mostly new mechanics (politics update and now the characters) instead of just a couple buttons to press that are redundant with already existing buttons.

 

[PK_AZ]

You completelly ignore that Total War is a completelly different genre with different focus than Grand Strategy games by Paradox.

The problem is that TW sometimes actually do grand strategy things better than Paradox games. Good example of that tendency is Shogun 2 (war-centered game) and CK2 (dynasty-centered game) - former actually had much nicer mechanics of selling your daughter for alliance.

 

[Denkt]

Honestly, they are doing many things right that paradox does wrong in their games, like meaningful buildings or not having magic buttons

In Rome II buildings are the whole driving factor in the economy and unit development while building in Imperator: Rome only play a supporting role in your economy. Imperator: Rome economy is instead based on actual population and supported by stuff such as buildings or characters.

I also like the choice that comes with tech trees rather than linear tech paths

We don't know how the technology system will be in Imperator Rome so it may not be linear but more like Stellaris in which you have to pick technologies to research. It will also have inventions which add another part to the technology system. Research speed in Rome II is based on how many research buildings you have while research in Imperator Rome is tied to your citizens, skill of characters and maybe other factors so that part seems to be more developed in Imperator Rome.

 

[alvaro]

I recon that Rome 2 TW is going the good way, improving on what was so horrible in previous TW (diplomacy, politics, economy,...). It also has engaging battles when Paradox is all about warfare but nothing to simulate a deep system, it's all about stacking numbers (more troops or more bonus) and praying RNGesus.

RNGesus lol
I see the battles in TW as a weakness. everything can be solved by anihilating armies. not being able to trust a reasonable autoresolve makes the problem even worse as you do not feel confident to play the game with no battles.

regarding I:R what worries me is that this TW patch allows you to have a long time relation with your lineage. Also TW is a long way from what I would like to see in character mangement, for instance if i place a governor in a new province i would expect the character to the same things i have available to do, be it creating trade routes, building buildings, stealing public money from the budget and supressing rebels in an automated way, not just reducing revolt index, increasing the trade level or boosting the infrastructure rate. I mean, if we are to have zillions of cities per region it couldnt make more sense. i do not see that in rome2.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

It's magic because it's too arcady. Clic button and *poof* problem vanishes. OH GOD NO rebels will rebel tommorrow! *click* *poof* *stable country*. OH GOD NO nobody wants to work and country is ravaged by war *click* *poof* *WE at 0*.

thank you, that's exatly what I meant

In Rome II buildings are the whole driving factor in the economy and unit development while building in Imperator: Rome only play a supporting role in your economy. Imperator: Rome economy is instead based on actual population and supported by stuff such as buildings or characters.


We don't know how the technology system will be in Imperator Rome so it may not be linear but more like Stellaris in which you have to pick technologies to research. It will also have inventions which add another part to the technology system. Research speed in Rome II is based on how many research buildings you have while research in Imperator Rome is tied to your citizens, skill of characters and maybe other factors so that part seems to be more developed in Imperator Rome.

I was mostly talking about EU4, you are right that I:R uses pops. I have not yet seen enough to say whether I like it or not. I don't want systems that I cannot influence at all as a player (like development in EU4 without common sense) and I don't like systems either that I directly influence in an arcade style especially if it involves mana (like developing with common sense). Right now pops do look a little like development in EU4 (just like there is tax dev and manpower dev there will be tax pops and manpower pops and so on) and the love the devs seem to have for mana does not make me happy at all

That said I do look forward to I:R, because it looks extremely moddable so far so maybe removing all magic buttons and replacing them with realistic mechanics through modding is possible

 

[wielkiciensteam]

I recon that Rome 2 TW is going the good way, improving on what was so horrible in previous TW (diplomacy, politics, economy,...). It also has engaging battles when Paradox is all about warfare but nothing to simulate a deep system, it's all about stacking numbers (more troops or more bonus) and praying RNGesus.



It's magic because it's too arcady. Clic button and *poof* problem vanishes. OH GOD NO rebels will rebel tommorrow! *click* *poof* *stable country*. OH GOD NO nobody wants to work and country is ravaged by war *click* *poof* *WE at 0*.

The interesting part is just what you did mention though in that the patches do bring in mostly new mechanics (politics update and now the characters) instead of just a couple buttons to press that are redundant with already existing buttons.

I love your post! Exactly my thoughts!

 

[Sabotage13]

I dislike deeply TW stuff because it doesnt matter what clever mechanic the implement, anything can be solved by crushing the dumb AI in battle.

Yea as much as I have enjoyed the series ever since Rome 1, the strategic map is a really fiddly but ultimately superfluous mini game that, over time, seems to have actually made the tactical battles worse rather than better.

 

[Black Turtle]

The entire Total War series is crap. Even the good ones like Rome and Shogun 2 are turd compared to Paradox games.

 

[Will Steel]

Oh heavens, this makes me happy like no other. Been waiting for this feature for 5 years now!

 

[Brynjar]

I should probably give TW: Rome 2 a real go again some time in the future. Last time I tried it TW: Rome was still a much better game...

It won't be a grand strategy game as long as real time battles are what they are though.