Tutorial section in IN bugs and glitches from new user

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Apparently, Paradox beleives that their game is too great for beta-testing the tutorial section, and any user worth her salt wouldn't need a tutorial anyway, so I'll probably be one of the first beta-testers of Tutorial section in IN, so here it goes:

1) Even after installation of 3.1 patch, the game crashes after completing each of tutorial sections - which is: You complete a tutorial section, and you have to quit the game, then restart. Otherwise, clicking on the next tutorial section hangs the game.

2) The very first Trials scenario (Units and Warfare), after starting, gives out the message: "Congratulations, you have recruited Latin regiment in Altmark". The task is: "Move the army unit in Altmark to Brandenburg".
And then you start playing for Brandenburg. An army unit in Altmark, naturally, is uncontrollable, because it's not yours. Your army is in Brandenburg and you cannot move it to Altmark because you arent at war with it.
Is it such a twisted requirement, that I first have to declare war to Altmark, then conquer Altmark, then raise a unit in Altmark and then move it to Brandenburg? Or is this tutorial task is just bugged? :wacko:
 

Lord Martin

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Astro said:
Apparently, Paradox beleives that their game is too great for beta-testing the tutorial section, and any user worth her salt wouldn't need a tutorial anyway, so I'll probably be one of the first beta-testers of Tutorial section in IN, so here it goes:

1) Even after installation of 3.1 patch, the game crashes after completing each of tutorial sections - which is: You complete a tutorial section, and you have to quit the game, then restart. Otherwise, clicking on the next tutorial section hangs the game.

2) The very first Trials scenario (Units and Warfare), after starting, gives out the message: "Congratulations, you have recruited Latin regiment in Altmark". The task is: "Move the army unit in Altmark to Brandenburg".
And then you start playing for Brandenburg. An army unit in Altmark, naturally, is uncontrollable, because it's not yours. Your army is in Brandenburg and you cannot move it to Altmark because you arent at war with it.
Is it such a twisted requirement, that I first have to declare war to Altmark, then conquer Altmark, then raise a unit in Altmark and then move it to Brandenburg? Or is this tutorial task is just bugged? :wacko:

The tutorial is outdated, unimportant, and left for dead. Stay away from it and play the game instead.
 

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Lord Martin said:
The tutorial is outdated, unimportant, and left for dead. Stay away from it and play the game instead.
Thanks, Comrade, for restoring my beleif in my future-telling abilities :D Somehow I expected something like that from that game (after 5 days of struggle of trying to just launch it and get the tech support).
This game is definitely ain't no Microsoft product :rofl:
Every day I wonder more and more - why this game is not a shareware.... :rofl:
 

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Thank God it's not a Microsoft product- it'd crash all the time, insult the intelligence of the user, and probably include selling your soul as part of the EULA.

The Tutorials, as far as I know, haven't been updated since the original game. They certainly haven't worked properly since the expansions came out.

But then, they're not in any way supposed to. Paradox, quite reasonably, assumes that a player will start on the original game, then buy the expansions.

What I would suggest is uninstalling the entire game. Then, reinstall vanilla and play through the tutorials. Get the hang of the basic game. Then, reinstall the two expansions and play with the full range of possibilities.

On the other hand, if you can manage to conquer Altmark, chances are you're ready to give the real game a go and learn there.
 

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Frankly the tutorials should be removed with a patch. They hinder more than help.

As for this game being shareware.........no way. Probably the best grand strategy game ever made.
 

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Worldbeing said:
The Tutorials, as far as I know, haven't been updated since the original game. They certainly haven't worked properly since the expansions came out.

But then, they're not in any way supposed to. Paradox, quite reasonably, assumes that a player will start on the original game, then buy the expansions.
Okay, let me explain my reasons for being very upset.
This is my first attempt at playing EU games. When I buy a bundle which includes original game and an expansion, I normally beleive that all parts of the game work properly.
I've never played EU games before, and therefore I want to start from tutorial and then go to normal game. Maybe it's a silly approach, but then again, I'm 37, I started playing PC games in 1989, and such approach worked fine till now.
What makes me irritated, is simple thing: Today I found that completing a task for Brandenburg in tutorial example is not possible.
Now, next time I encounter a difficulty in non-tutorial game, how can I be sure that it's a gameplay aspect, but not a bug?
I explained my line of thought - conquering Altmark, raising a regiment there and sending it to Brandenburg is theoretically possible, but it's a bugged line of action. Next time I encounter something like that - should I attribute it to a bug or game puzzle? Should I spend my time working around the problem as if it was a gameplay puzzle, or should I abandon this line of action because the source of a problem is a bug? I normally beleive that game plays 'fair'. But now I find out that sometimes it's just bugged. All this removes lots of fun from gameplay, and I find it irritating...
 

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Stop thinking of it as a bug.

The tutorials are some scenarios that came out with the original EU3 to help new players learn to play the game.

Since then, new expansion packs have come out, which are useless to people without EU3. They don't include tutorials, because anyone playing them is expected to have already played EU3.

What you've done is bought a bundle of old and new software. Don't expect the old to work with the new; they're different. Face that, and stop whining. You're certainly not acting like you're 37.

You have two options: you can try what I suggested, so you can play the tutorials for EU3 vanilla, and then play IN; or you can plunge into the game and learn it; it's not hard, and as long as you accept you're not going to achieve a WC in your first game you'll be OK.

Paradox wrote tutorials to teach players how to play EU3 vanilla. They didn't write any tutorials for NA or IN. You wouldn't be moaning if there were no tutorial in IN, you're only moaning because it's not working. So pretend it's not there, and get on with enjoying playing one of the best games of recent years.
 

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Worldbeing said:
Stop thinking of it as a bug.
Paradox wrote tutorials to teach players how to play EU3 vanilla. They didn't write any tutorials for NA or IN. You wouldn't be moaning if there were no tutorial in IN, you're only moaning because it's not working. So pretend it's not there, and get on with enjoying playing one of the best games of recent years.
I gather, that I'll have to do just that.
I myself am amazed that I still havent turned the purchase down and got the money back. That's totally due to the fact the game is so highly acclaimed in the game mags and to the fact there's so many users they had to disable search engine. Well, getting through all these difficulties has an old-timer's charm of sort, but I'd discourage the developers from exlpoiting this pshychology any further, as there may be some competitor who'd "borrow" all the good things this game has and release a title without nasty sides EU3 has one day...
Thanks for replying and great respect to the community anyway ;)
 

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Worldbeing said:
Stop thinking of it as a bug.

Since then, new expansion packs have come out, which are useless to people without EU3. They don't include tutorials, because anyone playing them is expected to have already played EU3.

What you've done is bought a bundle of old and new software. Don't expect the old to work with the new; they're different. Face that, and stop whining. You're certainly not acting like you're 37.

LMFAO! Well if thats your own work, who cares? But This is a Paradox game, it's a product! Is this how their products are being advertised? Who sets the rule that people who play the expansion must have played the original? If someone does, he's being at least not user-friendly. Reason why I'm playing is my friend strongly recommend this game (he knows I love Civ 4) to me and gave his full set of Paradox games to me before going embrace WoW, otherwise I would have just left the game untouched in my hard drive, the Rome cd still resting in my drawer. Sorry if this is going too aggressive, but I don't think this is how Paradox think. If they do, well, I have to say they don't want to expand their market to some extent.
 

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The problem is that in EU3 original, Altmark did belong to Brandenburg, but Magdeburg has been introduced since then. I guess it didn't occur to them to update the tutorials.

To Astro: You can actually fix this yourself. If you open tutorial\chapter6.txt, you will see the following:
Code:
tutorial =
{
	title = "TUTORIAL_6"
	desc = "TUTORIAL_6_DESC"
	tutorial_window = "TUTORIAL_WINDOW_1"	# default window
	interactive = yes
	country = BRA
	

	page =
	{

		effect = {
			treasury = 1000
		}

		args = { 
			regiment_type = "Latin Medieval Infantry"
			province = "Altmark"
		}


		window = "TUTORIAL_TASK"
		text = "tut_miss_1_task"
		window = "TUTORIAL_HINT"
		text = "tut_miss_1_hint"
		window = "TUTORIAL_CONC"
		text = "tut_miss_1_conc"

		trigger = {
			[COLOR=Yellow]52[/COLOR] = {
				infantry_in_province = 1	# At least one
				NOT = {
					infantry_in_province = 2	# NOT two or more  == exactly one.
				}
			}
		}

	}

	page =
	{

		args = { 
			province_1 = "Altmark"
			province_2 = "Brandenburg"
		}
	

		window = "TUTORIAL_TASK"
		text = "tut_miss_2_task"
		window = "TUTORIAL_HINT"
		text = "tut_miss_2_hint"
		window = "TUTORIAL_CONC"
		text = "tut_miss_2_conc"

		trigger = {
			50 = {
				infantry_in_province = 2	# At least two
				NOT = {
					infantry_in_province = 3	
				}
			}
		}

	}
Change that 52 (the province ID number) to a 51, and change the "Altmark"s to "Ruppin"s, and you should be fine (at least for this tutorial).

This is also a good introduction to modding, since all game data is in files with roughly the same structure. :)

EDIT: Would some kind soul like to file a bug on this? This really ought to be in 3.2. :)
 
Last edited:

Johan

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blwizard said:
LMFAO! Well if thats your own work, who cares? But This is a Paradox game, it's a product! Is this how their products are being advertised? Who sets the rule that people who play the expansion must have played the original? If someone does, he's being at least not user-friendly. Reason why I'm playing is my friend strongly recommend this game (he knows I love Civ 4) to me and gave his full set of Paradox games to me before going embrace WoW, otherwise I would have just left the game untouched in my hard drive, the Rome cd still resting in my drawer. Sorry if this is going too aggressive, but I don't think this is how Paradox think. If they do, well, I have to say they don't want to expand their market to some extent.

You are right. We should have looked at the tutorial more for the expansion to make sure it was more compatible.
 

unmerged(119700)

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Thanks for replying

Thanks to everyone for replying, especially great to see one of the makers to spare his time.

Another apparent thing that I wanted to suggest is lack of EU3 manual in the bundle set.
The "complete manual" that comes with the bundle is just a 13-page update, which describes new stuff.

I beleive this is not too difficult to include the original EU3 manual into the bundle - it's just 13 megs.

Shame that after buying the bundle that was advertised as "Great offer! For just $$ you get a complete EU3 plus latest expansion: In Nomine!" I had to go to pirate site to download the EU3 original manual.

Seeing how complex the game is, leaving new user without manual and without tutorial is like placing a 1800 Spanish Inquisitor in the command seat of Harpoon 4 simulator :p Theoretically possible, but very, very clumsy...
 

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Actually, if you've played Civ and TW enough this game shouldn't be hard to learn at all, even without a manual. All the basics are similar to Civ 4 and the strategic learning can come from TW. I learned myself to play the game and the only problem I had was the financial side, which only took me a few days to get the hang of.
 

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Johan said:
You are right. We should have looked at the tutorial more for the expansion to make sure it was more compatible.

So, will v3.2 have updated tutorials?
 

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Astro said:
Thanks to everyone for replying, especially great to see one of the makers to spare his time.

Another apparent thing that I wanted to suggest is lack of EU3 manual in the bundle set.
The "complete manual" that comes with the bundle is just a 13-page update, which describes new stuff.

I beleive this is not too difficult to include the original EU3 manual into the bundle - it's just 13 megs.

Shame that after buying the bundle that was advertised as "Great offer! For just $$ you get a complete EU3 plus latest expansion: In Nomine!" I had to go to pirate site to download the EU3 original manual.

Seeing how complex the game is, leaving new user without manual and without tutorial is like placing a 1800 Spanish Inquisitor in the command seat of Harpoon 4 simulator :p Theoretically possible, but very, very clumsy...


Actually yrhe all three manuals are there just not in the game folder. They are on the CD itself. So just go to you drive and right click and choose open you should then see the manuals. But these are not updated for 3.1 or the complete edition just the original three manuals.
 

semaphore

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Toddd240 said:
As for this game being shareware.........no way. Probably the best grand strategy game ever made.

You speak of shareware as if its a bad thing :p
 

jdrou

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rmdsc said:
You speak of shareware as if its a bad thing :p
Indeed, there is some outstanding shareware. Wolfenstein 3-D and the original Doom were shareware.
 

A_Dane

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heh a bit off topic perhaps, but i remember when i got eu2, i tried the tutorials, understood nothing anyhow, then jumped into a game as austria, attacked everything near me one at a time, and finally got my ass handed by a french, poland-lithaunia alliance xD but i'd say you should just try a couple of trial and error games and learn from them, france should be a good starting nation?
 

unmerged(119700)

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Well, I've done just that - started the campaign for Castille (I thankfully know quite a bit about Spanish history, thanks to the book by Robert Stenuit "The Treasures of the Invincible Armada") and even managed to conquer Granada before finding myself dragged into stupid war with Aragon over Navarra (to whom I fullishly allied). Yes, it all comes together now.
But would I have been just a little bit less patient, I would have dumped the whole thing altogether due to unfair starting conditions for the first-time player (no manual, no tutorial, no support).
And no. The manual for E3 is not anywhere in the depths of EU3 bundle package neither on the disks, nor on HD. I searched.
 
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