"Tutorial Island"

[Aelisa]

Hi everyone! So, I'm a long-time fan of Paradox (thousands of hours in EU4, CK2, and Stellaris), and I'm... really running into trouble with my 1066 Ireland starts.

Forming Ireland is relatively easy, even if I find that starting with a Martial education character and going Chivalry/Authority is if not necessary, then at least a great boon to getting sizable levies.

After that, everything starts going to hell. In my first game, I formed Ireland and took over The Isles and Man, then my king died and I was left with his scholarly, nerdy daughter, whose levies were a lot lower. At this point, Northumbria declared on me. Twice.

In a later game, I once again formed Ireland and set up my heir to be great with Martial matters. Succession happened and everything was fine - I also get an alliance with England and a large duchy in Norway, and things are looking up. I take over Wales, The Isles, and Man. England calls me into a war with France, then Northumbria attacks. My army is 6k, but for some reason, they can muster 9k.

I don't know. Ireland just seems really cutthroat to me, even if I feel like I've figured out the game well enough and am doing what I can - including a 25 Martial Marshal and some great knights. Maybe I'm a massive noob, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts. Meanwhile, I'm going to find an easier start - maybe Sub-Saharan Africa...

 

[Cymsdale]

Did the Northumbria wars leave you landless and game over? If not, why did you start over?

 

[Aelisa]

Did the Northumbria wars leave you landless and game over? If not, why did you start over?

In my first game, they booted me off Britain (the big island). In my later game, they threw me out of Wales. I realize these aren't game overs, but the smaller I get, the more prone I'll be to attacks of that nature, and a unified Ireland can't hope to compete with a unified Britain. Due to being a kingdom, I can't swear fealty either. Come to think of it, playing as a vassal within England or France might actually be the easier and safer thing to do.

If Ireland is really cutthroat now, I'll just have to get with the times, but otherwise it might be I'm doing something wrong. That big Northumbria blob that forms within England every game seems to be what's causing me trouble, though.

 

[Cymsdale]

and a unified Ireland can't hope to compete with a unified Britain.

 

[Aelisa]

I mean it's true, isn't it? Of course, I could always try to play the marriage game with England and maybe get them that way. The idea with playing Ireland, for me, is to (eventually) be able to form the Empire of Britannia.

 

[Cymsdale]

I mean it's true, isn't it? Of course, I could always try to play the marriage game with England and maybe get them that way. The idea with playing Ireland, for me, is to (eventually) be able to form the Empire of Britannia.

There are many ways to take out a bigger fish in Paradox games if you are patient and opportunistic.

 

[Aelisa]

There are many ways to take out a bigger fish in Paradox games if you are patient and opportunistic.

You're right, of course. Part of it is likely me and the sinking feeling I get when I get declared on and foreign rulers take chunks out of my hard-won territory.

 

[Aelisa]

I'd be curious to hear people's experiences with playing in Ireland, though, and how they handled matters.

 

[Thomas_Oak]

I have tried Ireland twice so far and each time I was destroyed by the vikings.

 

[Serenity84]

I have tried Ireland twice so far and each time I was destroyed by the vikings.

There are no Vikings in 1066

 

[grommile]

I have tried Ireland twice so far and each time I was destroyed by the vikings.

ireland 867 is not tutorial island.

ireland 867 is a knife fight in a burning phone booth above a pit of acid.

 

[Matt516]

I have tried Ireland twice so far and each time I was destroyed by the vikings.

867 start or 1066? They're basically the "big boss" of the 867 start. I've very nearly finished kicking them out of the British Isles by year 980, but I'm only barely holding on by maintaining alliances with West Francia and Iceland (who is a Waldensian powerhouse in this version of history). That and assassinating the blood ties that hold the Nordic nations together in alliances, that's a must so they don't all band together.

Now that I've formed the empire of Alba, I'm about to go feudal. We'll see if I survive the transition. xD

 

[Atalvyr]

I started as the count of Ossory in 867. After a couple of "trial runs" where I got brutally beaten down by vikings shortly after forming a duchy, I managed to stabilize in the third game and form the kingdom. From there I have invaded Scotland and slowly taken over Britain.

My biggest adversary has been Sweden Worldwide(c), who conquered lands from Ireland to Italy and at one point successfully invaded Iberia and took it entirely from the Caliph with their 17.000 man army. Later the Wendish Empire somehow got a county in Britain as well, which was concerning considering they were fielding 20.000 troops at the time.

However, I lucked out and the two tribal blobs broke apart after a bad succession and I have been able to gobble up the resulting exclaves in Britain. Now my main issue is becoming that West Francia has also grown fat on the remains of Sweden, so now I have to somehow boot them off the south tip of the island, even though they have 50% more troops than me. For now I have married their princess however, so me and the King of France are best buds mopping up tribals and Muslims together in harmony.

As much as external threats, I have had a lot of close calls with my internal power. It was a nasty surprise that claimants in a tribe can challenge the king to single combat for the crown, which went rather poorly for my cancer-ridden 58 year old king. However, with a little bit of scheming and a lot of kinslaying I got my crown back eventually. The last couple of successions have been rather bloody though, so I really need to find a way to hand over power without having to murder my brothers afterwards. Perhaps when I form an empire I can see about somehow securing a capital duchy that wont be constantly partitioned off. Or perhaps they will fix tanistry at some point so the elected heir actually gets some land to go with the kingdom.

 

[Taran14]

If you are having trouble with Northumbria in 1066 you might want to assassinate Morcar (or whoever rules in his place). Northumbria and Mercia start out being ruled by two brothers (Morcar and Eadwine), which means they can easily inherit or conquer from one another and form a massive powerful superduchy. But that large realm will usually fall apart again when the lord dies because of partition succession.

To even the odds against England, prepare your wars carefully and make sure you have lots of money to hire mercenaries. Ireland is only the tutorial island insofar as that it is easy to form the Kingdom of Ireland, which is a good learning scenario for new players. But taking on a united England is quite a bit more difficult. It is far from impossible though, you just need to be smart about your strategies. Or lucky.

 

[sejemaset]

There are no Vikings in 1066

Prince Erik III 'The Heathen' of Sweden would like a word with you.

 

[B3ndolf]

What a helpful community, the guy comes here asking an honest question looking for a bit of advice and all he gets is trite comments about "why did you start over when you were not completely wiped off the map?" and "be more patient."

my advice would be try to save up some money so that either when someone bigger declares on you or when you see an opportunity to declare on someone bigger (like when they are already at war with others) you can use that money to hire some mercs to beat them down with. its not that hard to get several hundred gold if you get money from the church and just dont spend money on other stuff.

 

[Froonk]

Ireland is no longer the tutorial island now that AI can just send their entire armies to you on a whim with new embarkment system.

 

[Matt516]

I really need to find a way to hand over power without having to murder my brothers afterwards. Perhaps when I form an empire I can see about somehow securing a capital duchy that wont be constantly partitioned off. Or perhaps they will fix tanistry at some point so the elected heir actually gets some land to go with the kingdom.

If you hold multiple Kingdoms and a secondary heir gets one, partition won't also give them land outside that kingdom. Thus if you keep your domain in a single primary kingdom (probably England eventually) and are fine with letting one of the other kingdoms (probably Wales) go to a brother, you can hold onto your domain. You'll want to put Saxon Elective on the two other kingdoms (Alba and Ireland) so they can go to your primary heir.

This obviously works best when you are a High King, so the brother will end up a vassal rather than independent.

 

[Atalvyr]

If you hold multiple Kingdoms and a secondary heir gets one, partition won't also give them land outside that kingdom. Thus if you keep your domain in a single primary kingdom (probably England eventually) and are fine with letting one of the other kingdoms (probably Wales) go to a brother, you can hold onto your domain. You'll want to put Saxon Elective on the two other kingdoms (Alba and Ireland) so they can go to your primary heir.

This obviously works best when you are a High King, so the brother will end up a vassal rather than independent.

That will still be tricky to pull of on subsequent successions though, as I would need to somehow reclaim those kingdom titles for the next time my king dies with multiple sons. I have been experimenting with having tanistry only on some titles to see if I can force the capital duchy to go to the heir of the top level title, but so far I have not had much luck. Which is annoying as it worked fine when I was still tribal. Then I could have tanistry on the kingdom and on the duchy and just elect the same guy and they would get everything. Now my sons take every county in the capital duchy no matter who is elected to inherit the kingdom or the duchy.

 

[Speagott90]

I've abandoned it since due to wanting a vassal start and disliking Tanistry, but my introductory game (Ireland 1066) went as follows:

- Unify Ireland (cakewalk, really, not much to say here)
- Marry into the House of Normandy
- Marry into the Welsh Mathrafal Dynasty
- Help out my Welsh relative
- United Welsh ally implodes, I decide to assume direct control
- I fight a series of wars in Wales, some work out others don't (England is doing badly and hardly any help)
- I have a chunk of Wales, my original King of Ireland dies, due to the colossal mistake of re-instituting Tanistry my heir's brother is a powerful vassal while my player heir hardly holds anything beyond the Crown, cue several years of politicking, backstabbing, appeasing factions et al.
- I am now big friends with bro, and I have a more solid demesne including Dublin. I start to look abroad again
- England fights a civil war, the branch of House Normandy I'm allied with ends up a rump state back on the continent
- The Viking chief of Lappland decides to waltz into the screaming fiery mess that is England and conquers it
- England is now Lappland. I laugh, I cry. I reconsider life.
- The Lappish Viking crowns himself King. King Grim of England. An apt name considering how grim things are for England at the time
- The Pope wakes from his nap in the money tub and calls a crusade, I join in, with my kinswoman and former warrior-queen of England as the beneficiary
- The King of Denmark gains England in the end, my kinswoman ends up one of the beneficiary vassals
- I forget what else happens here but I switch to a game with Matilda di Canossa

Useful as learning experience, and consolidating my reign after the first King died was really fun, kind of a walk at the razor's edge
I also got a bit more accustomed to the war aspect. Quality, terrain, knights and countering enemy troop composition are pretty important, it's no longer just a numbers game IMHO (I mean, it IS if you vastly outnumber the enemy, as it should be!)
Hiring mercenaries to improve the quality of your army is pretty useful, I found, and if you are pious the Pope can shower you with money every time you ask so they become easily affordable. And it's a flat up-front cost to keep them for 3 years, so you pay and you're good.
Other big takeaway: Tanistry is a death-trap in disguise and Partition is not only manageable, but fun!