Tuscany Ironman

[grisamentum]

Again off topic, but there's a really neat unique government type called Shogunate. It gives you +4 dip rel. It's only available if you start as Japan, and with diplomatic and expansion ideas you'll support +12. Just don't unify Japan - if you do, you get monarch points bonus but you'll become a feudal monarchy. As an extra bonus, your vassals (not just Daimyos, regular vassals) will have ability to ally each other and declare war against each other. It makes a fun game. You can vassalize one mid-sized nation and one OPM in separate peace deals without worrying about the dip rel - not only that you have plenty, the bigger one will eat up the smaller one on their own anyways!

The only worry being that your vassal can attempt kill you

 

[unmerged(177849)]

So an update for those interested - my tactic for keeping Austria out of the war with Naples did not work, so I DoWed Naples anyway & fought Austria also. It was easier than expected, even though AI France played idiotically. I peaced out Austria - released Baden and "returned" a province to Croatia. Probably should have fully occupied them and released Styria, but it would have taken a couple more years, as they still have extensive possessions in what was Burgundy. Oh, well, next war.

Then I took two provinces from Naples. I THINK that's enough to vassalize them next time (though no subjugation mission). We'll see.

Now the dilemma is whether to vassalize Savoy - I have the subjugation mission. That will mean a couple of years of being 3 over on my diplomatic relations - until Ferrara is annexed - unless I lose the RM with Austria. I really need the +2 DR from expansion, espeically with Naples and (hopefully) Styria next on the vassalization list.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

The only worry being that your vassal can attempt kill you

Nope. "Overthrow Shogunate" CB requires Daimyo government type. That is, non-Daimyo vassals elsewhere in Asia will need to use regular "Independence" CB... which is something the AI never does.

So an update for those interested - my tactic for keeping Austria out of the war with Naples did not work, so I DoWed Naples anyway & fought Austria also. It was easier than expected, even though AI France played idiotically. I peaced out Austria - released Baden and "returned" a province to Croatia. Probably should have fully occupied them and released Styria, but it would have taken a couple more years, as they still have extensive possessions in what was Burgundy. Oh, well, next war.

Then I took two provinces from Naples. I THINK that's enough to vassalize them next time (though no subjugation mission). We'll see.

Now the dilemma is whether to vassalize Savoy - I have the subjugation mission. That will mean a couple of years of being 3 over on my diplomatic relations - until Ferrara is annexed - unless I lose the RM with Austria. I really need the +2 DR from expansion, espeically with Naples and (hopefully) Styria next on the vassalization list.

Not only Styria, bur releasing Burgundy as a vassal and going back to war with Austria to extend their core is another thing you could do. B)

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Not only Styria, bur releasing Burgundy as a vassal and going back to war with Austria to extend their core is another thing you could do. B)

Hehe, great idea. But I'm really chafing at the DR limit. Vassalizing Corsica in retrospect was a mistake - basically a wasted slot. And I think I'm going need to take the stability hit to end the RM with Austria. Still, 8/6 now, with several candidates for vassilization (Savoy, Burgundy, Styria, Naples, even Baden) ... I really need the +2 from expansion, but being over the limit slows down accumulation of the points I'll need to get it. A catch 22.

Bottom line, though, it that it looks like I'll be going to war with Austria as often as I can over the next 30 to 40 years. They do have a Castille alliance, but if I keep up my alliance with France I should be okay.

Next big decision is whether to go protestant. Probably not.

I'm visualizing the Empire I'll have in about 70 years or so, though. It's going to be somewhat impressive I think.

 

[grisamentum]

Hehe, great idea. But I'm really chafing at the DR limit. Vassalizing Corsica in retrospect was a mistake - basically a wasted slot. And I think I'm going need to take the stability hit to end the RM with Austria. Still, 8/6 now, with several candidates for vassilization (Savoy, Burgundy, Styria, Naples, even Baden) ... I really need the +2 from expansion, but being over the limit slows down accumulation of the points I'll need to get it. A catch 22.

8/6 is fine. Diplo tech is mostly worthless. When you get to 10/6 start to worry

 

[grisamentum]

Nope. "Overthrow Shogunate" CB requires Daimyo government type. That is, non-Daimyo vassals elsewhere in Asia will need to use regular "Independence" CB... which is something the AI never does.

Creating a vassal as a shogunate doesnt automatically make it a daimyo? Or do you mean when you force-vassalize an existing state?

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Creating a vassal as a shogunate doesnt automatically make it a daimyo? Or do you mean when you force-vassalize an existing state?

Releasing a vassal doesn't make them Daimyo. I'm quite sure of this.

Releasing a Daimyo as Shogunate makes them independent and you're given "Annex Daimyo" CB automatically: i.e. don't do it. Though there's probably no reason to create Daimyo vassals.

 

[grisamentum]

Releasing a vassal doesn't make them Daimyo. I'm quite sure of this.

Releasing a Daimyo as Shogunate makes them independent and you're given "Annex Daimyo" CB automatically: i.e. don't do it. Though there's probably no reason to create Daimyo vassals.

Meh, in theory if you're playing all the way to 1821 as Japan, you should always be sure to have a vassal of Japanese culture. There's an event that only fires after 1650, only if you are Japan, and only if you have a Japanese vassal, which adds 2 base tax to your capital. But you can just do it with Ryukyu, so no need to keep a daimyo around.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Meh, in theory if you're playing all the way to 1821 as Japan, you should always be sure to have a vassal of Japanese culture. There's an event that only fires after 1650, only if you are Japan, and only if you have a Japanese vassal, which adds 2 base tax to your capital. But you can just do it with Ryukyu, so no need to keep a daimyo around.

I didn't know of that. Maybe next time? The last time I went Shi'ite, so maybe this time I'll try ... I don't know. Orthodox Japan?

 

[grisamentum]

I didn't know of that. Maybe next time? The last time I went Shi'ite, so maybe this time I'll try ... I don't know. Orthodox Japan?

Should work, the requirements are only:

Sankin Kotai

Triggers:
Primary culture is Japanese
Country is Japan
Any known country:
A vassal of Japan
Primary culture is Japanese
Does not have the country modifier "Sankin Kotai"

Year is at least 1635

Mean time to happen
Base mean time to happen of 200 months

Option: An excellent idea!:
Every known country:
Limited to:
A vassal of Japan
Primary culture is Japanese
Gets the country event:
ID is flavor_jap.30
Tooltip:
Adds the opinion modifier "Mildly displeased" towards our country
Adds the modifier "Sankin Kotai" for 10 years:
-5% global tax modifier
Random owned province:
Limited to:
The province is the capital of the country
Changes base tax by 2

Option: Sounds too costly:
Changes prestige by -5
Every known country:
Limited to:
A vassal of Japan
Primary culture is Japanese
Adds the opinion modifier "Pleased" towards our country

 

[unmerged(177849)]

I should probably start an AAR if I want to keep updating this, but …

After vassaling Savoy in early 1515, I DoWed Naples the same year. Unfortunately they were allied with both Austria and Hungary. Through a combination of factors – including poor AI play by France and uncharacteristically decent AI play by Austria/Hungary – this was a tough war. It ended in 1520 with my manpower trashed, Naples a vassal, Slavonia “returned” to Croatia, and a one province Styria vassal created. No bad, but I probably will need to give up the dream of a Burgundy vassal (pretty sure they will disappear in 24 years, and I need to prioritize getting Styria’s provinces “returned” before they expire).

Ferrara was annexed as well, as was Venice in 1524. 8/6 DR. Austria HATES me. Breaking the RM didn't help there (I am curia controller, so at least no stab hit).

It’s now 1524, the truce just expired with Austria. I’ll DoW with the goal of build a bigger Styria. It may not be easy, though – Austria, much weaker in and of itself, leads a personal union with much stronger Castille. Hopefully France won't play like an idiot this time.

I still don’t know how to post a proper screen shot, but here are two from 1520:

http://imageshack.com/a/img198/961/1ecc.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img835/8485/fywa.png

Edit - not going to keep posting new updates here, but will edit this for another update. Now 1548, a slow 28 years, because of two long wars with Austria (the first of which trashed my manpower again, the second of which went better), and a prolonged period of peace because I messed up and didn't leave myself with a border with Austria (or any other likely target) for about 10 years or so. But added in that time Provence, all of Styria's cores to Stryria (7 provinces), annexed 3 vassals (Venice, Croatia, Switzerland) and, belatedly and probably stupidly, created a Burgundy vassal (one province; most cores disappeared, except one additional core. But I can feed it some provinces in the vicinity I hope). I'm at 54 provinces including my vassals (now 8/8, 7 of whom are vassals. France still my ally). Wasted my colonist and Asian CB so far; discoveries haven't spread and colonial range low. Moving north with the ultimate aim of dismantling the HRE. Still hoping eventually to head for India.

Second edit - not going quite as well as I hoped - still much to learn apparently. I did win another war with Austria, but expansion is increasingly constrained by a number of factors. France turned on me - we haven't gone to war yet, but it is only a matter of time. Fortunately I am a little stronger than they are & they don't have good allies. But if they attack me when I am fighting Austria, for example, I'll be hurting. I've allied with England & am considering allying with Castille, who broke away from their PU with Austria, but they don't share a border with France. Aragon does, but they still view me as their rival.

Final edit - man, that change to AE scaling is going to make a huge difference. 1565, making very slow progress. No colonial action so far, though I tend to think that is to some extent a failure of imagination on my part. Still haven't fought France; allied to Bohemia and England. The lack of low AE cost conquest opportunities, and wanting to avoid coalitions, is slowing me to a virtual standstill. Thinking of starting something new, though I might as well get the Italy achievement first. Still and all, not bad for my second iron man.