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unmerged(177849)

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1469 - I've incorporated Ancona and Romagna, vassalized Sienna, Ferrara and Corsica, the first two of which I am in the process of annexing, allied to Modena but not yet able to peacefully vassalize them, and allied to Austria. It feels like maybe I haven't been aggressive enough. Milan with a strong position and strong alliances blocking expansion in that direction for the moment.

Is this a decent enough start, or am I expanding too slowly? Should I take Rome now?
 

Xara

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A screenshot of the map would be more useful

Also, when you're at 5+ provinces and adjacent to those with <3, don't ally them, just boost relations so you can get the subjugate mission. Allying with them prevents it
 

Opus

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It depends on what your goals are. Emperor? Unify Italy? Emperor as Italy? Stable, techleading realm? Trade Republic?

Tuscany-games are very open ended, you can do pretty much what you want. Though there are little point in colonizing the Americas. You could go around the cape, just to deny Portugal controll over the trade route.

I usually find expanding in europe beyond the italian peninsula to be quite boring. And when HRE are composed by less then 25 princes, I leave. I return once in a while to kick Austria in the nuts, for fun.
 

Opus

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Because it's hard to steer trade to either Genoa or Venice, where you'd normally collect. South America could work, steering trough Gold Coast-Timboctu -Alexandria (not sure if that works) but it seems like a lot of hustle.

Edit: It's Ivory Coast - Timbuctu - Tunis - Genoa. Doable, but just doesn't seem practical compared to the Gulf of Aden-rout given you only have a fixed nr of merchants.
 
Last edited:

dragoon9105

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I love Tuscany, Its the Prussia of the Mediterranean with the Italian peninsula's outstanding basetax and of course the twin universities and great idea that can put you miles ahead of other nations.

1469 is great to have a dominant position in central italy like you have, Don't bother with rome unless you need the money or trade power its better to vassalize the pope instead and get the free core then use the saved Admin points to pop your stability after the pope asks for it back. Don't worry about Milan, they will die eventually just make sure France and Austria stay out of northern Italy. Meanwhile if Naples breaks out of thier unions, devour it, wholesale then release sicily and get the free cores. Whenever you get the chance even for -2 stab try and vassalize Tunis it comes in handy if you eventually colonize.

Your going to need to determine exactly what you want to do New world is possible but you need to move your capital, To either Antwerpen, or Seville for europe (One of which requires some wars inside the empire and the other is a straight up war with spain) or into the new world. Genoa is terrible for colonies in america since it doesn't get any trade from it.

If you want to go for africa, Stay in Firenze or move to Venice. Or Rome (because its Rome!) Make sure you knock tunis out and keep spain the hell out of Morocco and west africa or they'll suck up all your trade which you will need to support colonies there. Beat up on mali every time the truce runs out until thier gone, free goldmines and alot of free tradepower provinces in Timbuktu. Then its up you where you want to go after you reach the cape.

Asia you should move capitals to Venice, its just a better trade node than Genoa in every way except of course being where most of your land right now is located. but that should change. Becuase Venice in any way you take should be your primary rival, Vassalize them as soon as you can and hold them so Austria doesn't take any of their stuff. If the ottomans want some of the islands, just don't bother defending them unless youve got the navy or Austria's willing to beat them up for you. Once you have Venice your going to want to beat up on the Ottomans and Mamluks and then everything from India to Japan is yours for the taking.

If your going to Europe then Austria becomes a liability, your friends should be France and ironically the Ottomans. Mainly becuase of Austria who will oppose you at every turn if you take practically anything that speaks german. Take the Alps, and try to get your capital out of italy (trade flows out of italy from europe not into it unfortunately) then work on dismantling your neighbors, even your allies. Becoming Italy is arguable if you want to end the game as the HRE go for it, if not pass, Tuscan ideas are generally better though Italy does get a cool flag.

So in short, pick a direction and kill everything that isn't paying you trade money. then go back and beat up the other countries for thier money while your at it. Your tuscany you'll have better ships, better men and better cannons than everyone else by the time the reformation ends, and if you stay as a republic you'll be able to choose for free every eight years what points you want to bring in and be able to make up the difference with advisors.
 

Fryslan0109

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I actuallly took Rome by accident in my Tuscany game... I just clicked the wrong button. Felt horrible afterward, but no one seemed to care.
 

LightsShadows

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I actuallly took Rome by accident in my Tuscany game... I just clicked the wrong button. Felt horrible afterward, but no one seemed to care.

Can you imagine if that actually happened in history? :rofl:

"Sir, what did you just sign!?!?"
"That was the document donating 25 ducats to the Pope, right?"
"Sir, you just ordered an invasion of the Papacy...."
"Whoops... Do I get to keep Rome?"
"Sir!"
 

Opus

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Not as a non-catholic. If you want to do a serious conquest-game with Tuscany, take the whole Innovative ideagroup and at least the first idea in Religous (or all of them, might as well) and convert to protestant. High tax, cheap ideas and tech and CB on everything thats not a protestant Republic. Thats free CB on 99,9 % of the world more or less.
 

Golladan

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How so? I drew the pope out of Rome. Then vassalized him and pushed him out of Italy. He's in Frankfurt now.

All I got was a temporary malus with every catholic nation that didn't really do anything.
 

TingJonKi

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Because it's hard to steer trade to either Genoa or Venice, where you'd normally collect. South America could work, steering trough Gold Coast-Timboctu -Alexandria (not sure if that works) but it seems like a lot of hustle.

Edit: It's Ivory Coast - Timbuctu - Tunis - Genoa. Doable, but just doesn't seem practical compared to the Gulf of Aden-rout given you only have a fixed nr of merchants.

or you get 100% trade power in a node in the americas/africa and steer there
 

Opus

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or you get 100% trade power in a node in the americas/africa and steer there

You mean Collect there. Yeah, you can do that. But usually, it's hard to get 100% in any American trade node as an Italian state. Unless you wage constant war with Spain and/or Portugal and/or GB. When you get the range, those nodes are all like 50% taken. Brazil, witch is the only node feeding to an African node is surley almost 100% taken by Portugal and/or Castille.

You could go early for a south Marocc province and use as a base for colonisation of the Americas.

Doable, ofc, but there are easier/more plauseble ways for Tuscany or Milan to go. Like driving trade from the East. More money too, if done right.
 

unmerged(177849)

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Thanks. I just wasted 20 years fighting and recovering from a disastrous war with Venice & it's allies (involved a couple huge mistakes on my part at the start). So now it's 1490 and I have a decent position in central Italy, but no obvious expansion possibilities. HRE to the north, no real diplo vassilization possibilities, and Naples still in a PU with Aragon tot he south. Leaving just Venice, but I'm obviously gun shy about that.

I guess I need to read up on expanding within the empire, not something that I've tried much before (and not an easy task).

Based on the above comments, it almost looks like taking Rome is my best bet.
 

El Jojo

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Expanding in the HRE is not that different, since you're part of it as long as you have a CB the emperor won't intervene.
Vassalizing Venice is a must. Then as Tuscany you can go the Balkan route, Vassalizing Bosnia / Serbia / Croatia, then pushing the Ottomans out of Europe.

Concerning Colonies, you can take the whole Mexico Trade node quite easily as Castille and Portugal do not seem to rush the Mayans / Aztecs / Zapotecs.
 

unmerged(177849)

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I ended up getting into another disastrous war & deleted the save game. Only my second ironman, and the first was the Ottomans. Rather than being too conservative, I think I'm not being careful enough. It was a decent start though, and next time I'll be a bit more careful.
 

Xara

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Ally with strong partners and beat up on Venice early on. Because you are in the HRE and they own HRE provinces, if you take Treviso, Brescia, etc. you receive a claim after-the-fact on any HRE territories you liberate.

Get to 5 provinces asap, so you can generate subjugation missions (vassalize x, results in 0 AE)

Major tip : Try your damndest to get a Subjugation on Ferrara. They are typically guaranteed by Savoy. Savoy will assume war leadership and due to the nature of the CB you can then vassalize Savoy for 0 AE (assuming you win).
 

jii

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Fabricate claims -> vassalize everything. Diplo/expansion are vital for the +2 relations. You can easily steal Dalmatia from Venice, release it as a vassal and then reclaim its cores from Hungary. By the time you've conquered your home region you should be big enough to diplovassalize Bosnia and Serbia, and that paves the way for releasing/vassalizing Byzantium and Bulgaria from the Turks. Points of potential difficulty are Austria, which can't be easily split up, and Naples. If you're lucky Austria will waste its imperial ambitions by conquering, and Naples will escape the PU. If not you should be wealthy enough to tackle Spain/the Emperor anyway.

edit: Also, you'll have to be pretty Machiavellian (hehe) in your diplomacy. Keep good relations with everyone, ally with everyone, and betray them at the drop of a hat. Austria makes a good ally while you're still confined to central Italy. France makes a good ally while you're working on Lombardia and the Sicilies. Spain and Burgundy usually end up being my final allies against France and Austria respectively.
 
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