Turret traverse time and stupid unit AI

[Tank Girl]

First: I like the general idea of the slower turret traverse times. They are immersive and add to the balance.

BUT:

There is the stupid unit AI that is always doing the wrong thing with no way for the player to prevent it from that.

Tanks will always try to "look" towards the closest enemy unit, even when its far away on the left or right side, while driving towards the front, where the enemy is not yet visible (especially when u are driving through a wall of smoke...).

In Wargame all of this was not so much of a problem because stabilizers.
In Steel Division its a big waste of time and kills immersion completly.

POSSIBLE FIX:
Tank Turrets should always point in the direction of the given "Attack move" order.

When moving quick or with normal movement, I dont mind, stupid AI can do with its turret however it pleases

Ideally, the "awareness" of units should be reduced to their actually range +100 metres or so, to avoid them always trying to "look at" units far away from them.
Its also dangerous since ur tanks will also start facing that direction when standing still.

In other words: I would love to have the option to just completly disable the stupid unit AI and give me full control of hull and turret facing. I would just love that micro, because it perfectly suits Steel Division (IMO).

Or what do you think?

 

[Bishmoo]

Tanks will face towards the closest *visible* unit to the player. I just watched a replay where a Sherman drives past a unit of recon in a bush looking straight in the opposite direction, towards the closest visible unit. I haven't seen them look at a unit where they are pointed towards something they can't see.

I think if you want to micro of the facing of the units you run in to problems with the suppression mechanic. Sure, if they are totally calm point them how you want to. But I thing the unpredictability of what happens when under fire is not quite as bad as you suggest. It's important to remember that people could be disoriented in a metal can, and make hasty or incorrect decisions. I do like your suggestion of "fixing" a unit pointed in a certain direction. For instance ensuring an AT piece is always pointed right down the road it is covering, or a jeep pointed right on the gap between hedgerows to prevent infantry movment. Such a freeze command wouldn't be hard to implement I guess. But it is important to remember which units you have locked in a direction!

 

[Makko]

Units seem to remember spotted enemy units even if they disappear again.

Which is a good thing, otherwise losing LOS for a second on an AT gun would mean you lose your tank since it flips sideways to face at something 2km away

 

[DuroSVK]

First: I like the general idea of the slower turret traverse times. They are immersive and add to the balance.

BUT:

There is the stupid unit AI that is always doing the wrong thing with no way for the player to prevent it from that.

Tanks will always try to "look" towards the closest enemy unit, even when its far away on the left or right side, while driving towards the front, where the enemy is not yet visible (especially when u are driving through a wall of smoke...).

In Wargame all of this was not so much of a problem because stabilizers.
In Steel Division its a big waste of time and kills immersion completly.

POSSIBLE FIX:
Tank Turrets should always point in the direction of the given "Attack move" order.

When moving quick or with normal movement, I dont mind, stupid AI can do with its turret however it pleases

Ideally, the "awareness" of units should be reduced to their actually range +100 metres or so, to avoid them always trying to "look at" units far away from them.
Its also dangerous since ur tanks will also start facing that direction when standing still.

In other words: I would love to have the option to just completly disable the stupid unit AI and give me full control of hull and turret facing. I would just love that micro, because it perfectly suits Steel Division (IMO).

Or what do you think?

Another post from you which I think is constructive and the issue should be fixed.
Nice going, you are really improving on these forums!
+1

 

[Makko]

I'd say awareness should be at like 1300m for armored vehicles because of turn speed and the vulnerability of side armor.


It's also unclear if units "forget" enemy units eventually or if they always magically detect them once they're spotted once.

 

[Vyllis]

Agree with OP.

First my tank telling me "look, there is an big bad enemy behind there. I can feel its movement, i have good extrasensory abilities." without seeing it is unrealistic, exploitable and a bad mechanic.

Second it will keep its turret aiming at an enemy without LOS while the AT gun i wanted to destroy just in front of it will have all the time to wreck my tank..

 

[Bishmoo]

Agree with OP.

First my tank telling me "look, there is an big bad enemy behind there. I can feel its movement, i have good extrasensory abilities." without seeing it is unrealistic, exploitable and a bad mechanic.

Second it will keep its turret aiming at an enemy without LOS while the AT gun i wanted to destroy just in front of it will have all the time to wreck my tank..

Are you saying that the AT gun in front of it is no longer in LOS? Because it sounds like you have no vision on what is shooting at you. Always bring recon with armor. If it really goes to shit and you have no recon but you know where a gun is you can force your tank to attack where the AT position is.. but this depends very much on the situation you are in. Often, especially because of the nature of the maps, it might be better to try to move out of LOS of the gun that it is shooting at you.

In phase A, use your mortars for smoke. Once phase B hits, try to bring in arty that can use smoke. Calliope is useless. Rock that M7 life.

 

[Max_Damage]

Would hate to have to pivot each unit individually. Let the "stupid" AI do this instead and adapt. I already have 30 separate units to care about :S

 

[DPK]

tank facing at the target can come very handy at times, for tank combat this mechanics will help you survive a lot. And a side tip: disable the HE round of your tanks which are AT capable (panther/sherman 76 alike) will greatly reduce the chance tanks facing at infantry and expose its side armor. For OP's problem, the turret-less vehicles suffer a lot more from exposing the side armor, some times tanks move to seek cover, and most of the time they just panic and die..... which is stupid.


Yeah, I'd like a option where tanks(heavy tank destroyers) don't turn that much, and please don't let em panic that much.

 

[Vyllis]

Are you saying that the AT gun in front of it is no longer in LOS?

If your tank decide to turn his turret 90° to track something out of LOS, how its supposed to shoot first the 3 stars AT gun at 0° i want him to engage as fast as possible?
I know how to play the game, the problem is tank tracking stuff not seen. Especially now that some tanks turret/hull turn really slower.

In a way its a cool exploit to see where your enemy is moving behind cover, otherwise it also cause problem with turrets not being aligned with the hull facing when needed.

 

[DPK]

If your tank decide to turn his turret 90° to track something out of LOS, how its supposed to shoot first the 3 stars AT gun at 0° i want him to engage as fast as possible?
I know how to play the game, the problem is tank tracking stuff not seen. Especially now that some tanks turret/hull turn really slower.

In a way its a cool exploit to see where your enemy is moving behind cover, otherwise it also cause problem with turrets not being aligned with the hull facing when needed.

So, this is the reason why my tanks mysteriously shake their butts when nothing is seen nearby....

 

[Vyllis]

Yes. And using this can give you some info of where is an enemy, even if its not the most reliable way to do.
I find it best with tank with long guns (ex: Sherman 76) because its easier to see from the model.

 

[MausGMR]

Yes I would love to have the option to disable the auto facing if possible please. Have had many instances now trying to get the first shot with an M10, which I should be getting because of the gun angling in the initial instance, being lost because the tank turns its hull to face the enemy and then the gun after, when originally it had its gun on target at the point of initial targetting.

 

[Tank Girl]

Glad to see I m not the only one who noticed

And as I said in the OP: I dont think the change of traverse time is bad, to the contrary. Its just that mechanics that did well for High Tech Unit Wargame with stabilizes and stuff will not work as intended in a WWII setting.

And this should be considered/fixed/changed/adjusted

 

[TGApples]

Yeah - this is a problem. Looks like the new King Tigers have slow turret turn speeds. I had a scenario yesterday where I had a dangerous enemy which would come into LoS as I crested a hill. The turret wanted to target some insignificant enemy somewhere behind me.

It's not like this wasn't discussed on the threat about making them slower...

We need better unit AI, more control, or sod realism and have faster turret turn times.

 

[Vyllis]

have faster turret turn times.

Lets hope we do not get back there.