Turning Point 1989 [RELEASED]

[Teep]

If you can help me with a better OOB I will be thankful, if I'm not mistaken this OOB was taken from MDS, although Iraq's I think is more accurate.
Sometimes this mixing happens but I try to put the doctrine to what they use more, brigades or divisions, either way the play can abandon one doctrine to the other.

I don't actually have an entirely accurate OOB, but I would say that at least there a couple of steps you could take to improve the war. One would be to reduce the amount of armour in the Iranian armies for more infantry as the Iranians were low on heavy equipment to begin with let alone 5 years into the war, a second would be to give the Iranians a couple more airbases, one in maybe Tabriz and one in maybe Hamadan? Give the Iraqis one in the north as well in somewhere like Kirkuk. As it stands the Iranian airforce hasn't the range to effect the war from the one airbase in Gameroon. Another step (to me the most important at the moment) would be to move the units of Iranian troops that are sitting around in the rest of the country to the South around Basrah and Amarah given that was the most important of the theatres of the war. Commanders would really help too, I guess you could grab at least a couple from MDS but other than that I wouldn't know where to get the.

 

[Insert-Name]

Here's the Canadian Order of Battle it took me a while to figure out

Please note: It's not infallible as it's based of documents from 1989 but also reconstructed with anecdotal evidence from veterans, modern day structural layout, and some documents from 1980.

First major change: All units should be 1975 or 1980, not 1970. The new olive uniform was introduced in 1971 so there's no way they would be 15 years outdated even if still using FALs until 1988-89.

OOB for Army and Air Force

In Ottawa:
National Defence Headquarters (HQ) at 50% strength
Special Service Force/CAR (for Canadan Airborne Regiment) - airborne brigade at 80% strength
Transport Section 80% Strength (air transport)


In Edmonton:
1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (mechanized brigade, full strength)
50% strength Fighter Wing (named 1st Fighter Wing)

In Fredericton (New Brunswick):
Combat Training Centre (so large and well funded as to be able to form a 75% mechanized brigade)
35% strength Tac Helicopter Sqn names Tactical Section

In Quebec City:
5 Brigade mechanisee du Canada (mechanized brig)
2nd Fighter Wing (50% strength)

In Lahr (Nuremberg), FR Germany
4th Canadian Mechanized Brigade (mech brig)
CF Fighter Wing - Germany (60% strength)

In Halifax:
33% Strength Helicopter or Naval Bomber Wing

In Victoria:
40% Strength Naval Bomber Wing

Reserves are fun as they can be represented as locked understrength dismounted infantry which swell if there's a war - the thing about them is they CAN be used to supplement Regular Force but are usually held back to be made into new cohesive units (and would have been had shit hit the fan)

Ontario Brigade Group- 80% strength in Toronto
Second Ontario Brigade Group - 30% in Ottawa

BC Brigade Group - 25% in Vancouver

1st Western Brigade Group - 50% in Calgary
2nd Western Brigade Group 30% in Edmonton

Maritimes Brigade Group - 40% in Halifax

Brigade de Montreal - 70% in Montreal
Brigade du Quebec 20% in Quebec City

Royal Newfoundland Regiment - 20% in St John's (yes, it was and remains an extremely large unit, today almost 800 pers back then almost double including supporting units)

Also, and this is unique for Canada, there should be 1x 1945 capped at 40% strength mountain brigade active in Yukon (close to Alaska) with 2 experience stars name Canadian Rangers

Royal Canadian Navy:

Atlantic Fleet (Halifax):
2x 1970 Destroyer
6x 1955 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1960 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1965 Frigate (with upgrade)
4x transports

Pacific Fleet (Victoria)
2x 1970 Destroyer
8x 1955 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1960 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1965 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x transports

Hope that this helps

 

[Teep]

A couple more things:

• The Wir Sind Das Volk event for the DDR has a choice called ACTION_NAME_MEAN
• Vilkaviskus, a Lithuanian core does not go to the Lithuanian SSR when it is released as a puppet by the USSR.
• The Eastern Bloc seems to spend much time and money influencing Iran for some reason despite supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War historically and being on the opposite ends of the political spectrum.
• NATO doctrines seem to lack HQ upgrades.

 

[Deounce]

Playing as DDR

I noticed that when it gets close to unification, my manpower pool drains from -50 other factors and so i tried to adjust it so when i pick a different political party but remain indepedant, my negative value goes away however the game just crashes. Anyway to fix this to restore my manpower growth?

 

[Asalto]

Hansnery, two more issues from my side:

1. Can you check ministers for Campuchea as well please, for some reason only HoS appears but their supposed HoG (Hun Sen) who is otherwise also in minister files and has been de facto ruler of both pro-Vietnamese Campuchea and also modern Kingdom of Cambodia is somehow missing in game. You should also add him as PM to reserve cabinet as PA so he won't be changed for blank SC shadow minister when monarchy is restored as he continued to serve in kingdom as well.

2. Concerning leaders, there are a few in USSR and some other majors, but too few even for them. I'm not bothered by generic leaders that much than by those being default ones that are unable to gain xp, traits and promotions, so you're forced to move around stacks of only three brigades/divisions not to have penalty for lower rank commander leading big armies. Maybe you could just change end dates for vanilla ones? Their files are still located in TP files, so maybe it wouldn't be too hard simply to past some stacks of new end years (2012) there. Not sure if vanilla generals will appear with pics that way, if they would, it's not a big deal to delete pics descriptions in TP files as well, so you won't have Rommel and Patton running around in 1989. But eventually, we'll need to add some real leaders of course as well.

 

[Teep]

Bugs for the Bug God:

• North Korea has no cores on Seoul or Chuncheon.
• If one invests in research during the cycle of another research the blueprints for the second event do not turn up.
• When the USSR collapses and the Warsaw pact declines some states stay in the alliance till 1994 at least, in my Iran game these were Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.
• The USSR goes Free Market really hard and really fast, like full Free Market by 1988, and it then moves straight back due to ideology.

Suggestions for the suggestion throne:

• North Korea could in theory be attacked with impunity by South Korea as noone guarantees them or allies them. In practice they at least initially have the larger army.
• Oil producing nations seem to love their rockets and hate their chemistry, from a brief survey Iraq has no chemistry specialists and one rocket specialist, Venezuela has the same, Saudi Arabia has 2 rocket tech teams and no chemistry ones while Iran has 4 rocket specialists and no chemistry one. Given how little use rocketry techs are for anyone let alone for small to medium powers like these states I have no idea while it is. There are quite a number of states with loads of rocketry other than these too.
• South Korea's industry techs are on par with the likes of Iran which seems a little odd for an Asian Tiger in the 80s.
• Maybe make the financial industry techs unlocked by a decision requiring being on the free market side at least.

 

[hansnery]

Here's the Canadian Order of Battle it took me a while to figure out

Please note: It's not infallible as it's based of documents from 1989 but also reconstructed with anecdotal evidence from veterans, modern day structural layout, and some documents from 1980.

First major change: All units should be 1975 or 1980, not 1970. The new olive uniform was introduced in 1971 so there's no way they would be 15 years outdated even if still using FALs until 1988-89.

OOB for Army and Air Force

In Ottawa:
National Defence Headquarters (HQ) at 50% strength
Special Service Force/CAR (for Canadan Airborne Regiment) - airborne brigade at 80% strength
Transport Section 80% Strength (air transport)


In Edmonton:
1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group (mechanized brigade, full strength)
50% strength Fighter Wing (named 1st Fighter Wing)

In Fredericton (New Brunswick):
Combat Training Centre (so large and well funded as to be able to form a 75% mechanized brigade)
35% strength Tac Helicopter Sqn names Tactical Section

In Quebec City:
5 Brigade mechanisee du Canada (mechanized brig)
2nd Fighter Wing (50% strength)

In Lahr (Nuremberg), FR Germany
4th Canadian Mechanized Brigade (mech brig)
CF Fighter Wing - Germany (60% strength)

In Halifax:
33% Strength Helicopter or Naval Bomber Wing

In Victoria:
40% Strength Naval Bomber Wing

Reserves are fun as they can be represented as locked understrength dismounted infantry which swell if there's a war - the thing about them is they CAN be used to supplement Regular Force but are usually held back to be made into new cohesive units (and would have been had shit hit the fan)

Ontario Brigade Group- 80% strength in Toronto
Second Ontario Brigade Group - 30% in Ottawa

BC Brigade Group - 25% in Vancouver

1st Western Brigade Group - 50% in Calgary
2nd Western Brigade Group 30% in Edmonton

Maritimes Brigade Group - 40% in Halifax

Brigade de Montreal - 70% in Montreal
Brigade du Quebec 20% in Quebec City

Royal Newfoundland Regiment - 20% in St John's (yes, it was and remains an extremely large unit, today almost 800 pers back then almost double including supporting units)

Also, and this is unique for Canada, there should be 1x 1945 capped at 40% strength mountain brigade active in Yukon (close to Alaska) with 2 experience stars name Canadian Rangers

Royal Canadian Navy:

Atlantic Fleet (Halifax):
2x 1970 Destroyer
6x 1955 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1960 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1965 Frigate (with upgrade)
4x transports

Pacific Fleet (Victoria)
2x 1970 Destroyer
8x 1955 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1960 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x 1965 Frigate (with upgrade)
2x transports

Hope that this helps

Could you send me this already in the .inc file? It will save me some time. Right now I'm making events for Yugoslavia and fixing the bugs people send me. If you can't no problem, I will do it later.

 

[bestmajor]

hi, i did not download yet, but on the screens in the OP, there is a typo in Stoltenbergs first name http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Stoltenberg

sorry if its already fixed

 

[hansnery]

hi, i did not download yet, but on the screens in the OP, there is a typo in Stoltenbergs first name http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Stoltenberg

sorry if its already fixed

Now it has. Thanks.

 

[Teep]

More:

• Romania seems to have a claim on Sfantu Gheorghe rather than a core.
• From what I can tell, Soviet doctrine unlike NATO doctrine has HQ upgrades but doesn't seem to have any between 1945 (WWII experience) and 1980 (Deep Offensive operations) so it may mean that the Eastern Bloc can only produce 1945 or 1980 HQs and not have the former upgraded to the latter.
• Why would anyone in their right mind take Winter Warfare experience over Guerilla warfare?
• Grand Battle plan seems to weaken attack in some terrain and increase it in others. Is this WAD?
• Only Defensive focus and Light Infantry have 1995 HQs.
• Branch Interoperability seems to set GDE to 5% not add 5% as Assault Breakthrough its parallel tech does. I think the ground_def_eff when = 5 on the last row is the problem.

# Branch Interoperability
  application =
  { id        = 6200
    name      = TECH_APP_LD_20_NAME
    position  = { x = 576 y = 220 }
    picture   = "branch_int_op"
    year      = 1995
    # Combined arms operations
    component = { id = 6201 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_1_NAME type = combined_arms_focus difficulty = 10 }
    # Long-Range Reconnaissance
    component = { id = 6202 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_2_NAME type = small_unit_tactics difficulty = 10 }
    # Forward command posts
    component = { id = 6203 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_3_NAME type = centralized_execution difficulty = 10 }
    # Fire direction centers
    component = { id = 6204 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_4_NAME type = technical_efficiency difficulty = 10 }
    # Tactical unit - squad
    component = { id = 6205 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_5_NAME type = training difficulty = 10 }
    required  = { 6170 }
    effects =
    { command = { type = scrap_model which = hq value = 5 }
      command = { type = new_model which = hq value = 6 }
      command = { type = morale which = land value = 5 }
      command = { type = tactical_withdrawal value = 4 }
      command = { type = breakthrough value = 2 }
      command = { type = encirclement value = 4 }
      command = { type = ambush value = 1 }
      command = { type = hq_supply_eff value = 2 }
      command = { type = sce_frequency value = 0.3 }
      command = { type = ground_def_eff when = [B]5[/B] value = 0.05 }
    }
  }

 

[hansnery]

More:

• Romania seems to have a claim on Sfantu Gheorghe rather than a core.
• From what I can tell, Soviet doctrine unlike NATO doctrine has HQ upgrades but doesn't seem to have any between 1945 (WWII experience) and 1980 (Deep Offensive operations) so it may mean that the Eastern Bloc can only produce 1945 or 1980 HQs and not have the former upgraded to the latter.
• Why would anyone in their right mind take Winter Warfare experience over Guerilla warfare?
• Grand Battle plan seems to weaken attack in some terrain and increase it in others. Is this WAD?
• Only Defensive focus and Light Infantry have 1995 HQs.
• Branch Interoperability seems to set GDE to 5% not add 5% as Assault Breakthrough its parallel tech does. I think the ground_def_eff when = 5 on the last row is the problem.

# Branch Interoperability
  application =
  { id        = 6200
    name      = TECH_APP_LD_20_NAME
    position  = { x = 576 y = 220 }
    picture   = "branch_int_op"
    year      = 1995
    # Combined arms operations
    component = { id = 6201 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_1_NAME type = combined_arms_focus difficulty = 10 }
    # Long-Range Reconnaissance
    component = { id = 6202 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_2_NAME type = small_unit_tactics difficulty = 10 }
    # Forward command posts
    component = { id = 6203 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_3_NAME type = centralized_execution difficulty = 10 }
    # Fire direction centers
    component = { id = 6204 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_4_NAME type = technical_efficiency difficulty = 10 }
    # Tactical unit - squad
    component = { id = 6205 name = TECH_CMP_LD_20_5_NAME type = training difficulty = 10 }
    required  = { 6170 }
    effects =
    { command = { type = scrap_model which = hq value = 5 }
      command = { type = new_model which = hq value = 6 }
      command = { type = morale which = land value = 5 }
      command = { type = tactical_withdrawal value = 4 }
      command = { type = breakthrough value = 2 }
      command = { type = encirclement value = 4 }
      command = { type = ambush value = 1 }
      command = { type = hq_supply_eff value = 2 }
      command = { type = sce_frequency value = 0.3 }
      command = { type = ground_def_eff when = [B]5[/B] value = 0.05 }
    }
  }

About Romania, I believe it's because the majority there is hungarian. The HQs have already been reported but the land doctrines apart from Asymmetric Warfare I don't remember to have changed anything, but I might be wrong.

 

[Teep]

About Romania, I believe it's because the majority there is hungarian. The HQs have already been reported but the land doctrines apart from Asymmetric Warfare I don't remember to have changed anything, but I might be wrong.

All that I am saying is that initially Branch Interoperability looks like this in game:

When I change command = { type = ground_def_eff when = 5 value = 0.05 } to command = { type = ground_def_eff when = 1 value = 0.05 } like the rest it looks like this:

Also, shouldn't Canada be using NATO doctrines?

 

[Insert-Name]

Hey is hotfix 3 up yet or any other updates? I wanted to keep playtesting but the version right now is just too screwy for me... and I understand that it's an alpha, the problem is the stability more than anything.

And those Afghan war events are just disproportionately unfair

 

[hansnery]

Hey is hotfix 3 up yet or any other updates? I wanted to keep playtesting but the version right now is just too screwy for me... and I understand that it's an alpha, the problem is the stability more than anything.

And those Afghan war events are just disproportionately unfair

I'm still thinking if I release another hotfix or just go straight to 0.2 but if you guys really want I can release it. About the Afghan War I wanted to make the war difficult in a way, since because of the egine it wouldn't be possible to represent proper assymetric warfare and it would be easy to just defeat them, so the idea was to make this a kind of war exhaustion. But I'm thinking of making some kind of Crisis in the Kremlin "motion of no confidence" event perhaps and an already planned dynamic coup system if you fail to balance your dissent.

 

[Deounce]

I'm still thinking if I release another hotfix or just go straight to 0.2 but if you guys really want I can release it. About the Afghan War I wanted to make the war difficult in a way, since because of the egine it wouldn't be possible to represent proper assymetric warfare and it would be easy to just defeat them, so the idea was to make this a kind of war exhaustion. But I'm thinking of making some kind of Crisis in the Kremlin "motion of no confidence" event perhaps and a already planned dynamic coup system if you fail to balance your dissent.

Will there be manpower restore for the DDR after a political party has been voted in but declines to reunify, instead remain a new reformed DDR? Ive tried to play around with it myself but the game just crashes.

 

[hansnery]

Will there be manpower restore for the DDR after a political party has been voted in but declines to reunify, instead remain a new reformed DDR? Ive tried to play around with it myself but the game just crashes.

Can you tell me exactly when the crash happens?

 

[ajeto]

I don't think the events are unfair, but the war is obviously a long way from being finished yet. I once played as Afghanistan, redeployed my whole army to Kabul and prepared to destroy the enemy in a series of small encirclements once the Soviets pull out of the war. The Soviets instead just brought a large air force to Central Asia and killed over 200 000 enemies with it, loosing some 1000 of their own men, mostly in some defensive ground battles. I just captured the victory points and annexed them.

If the Soviets pull out, the Afghan Government has no chance of winning. It doesn't even have enough resources and the IC to produce the needed supplies. There is also the question of the Mujahedin doctrinal supremacy, but that'll be taken care of once the tech teams for both sides are in the game. The resources and supplies should be partialy be given for free by the USSR once they pull out of the conflict. There should also be more resources around Afghanistan as well, otherwise there is no long term benefit of holding any province aside from Kabul and this wasn't that short a war.

The Mujahedin should also be given a free flow of resources, money and supplies from the US and Pakistan.

Some possible events to benefit the Mujahedin:
Unified Front Formalised-Improves relations with some sunni countries and the US, maybe increases org or IC modifier a bit.
Iran Backs The Shia Mujahedin -If Iran chooses to give them some supplies and money in a decision, the mujahedin gain a new brigade in central Afghanistan.
Various Events from time to time, giving small amounts of money and manpower, representing foreign volunteers and donations.
General Shahnawaz Tanai of the Khalq faction tries to coup the Parcham faction president. Whichever faction is chosen by the event to win, eliminates the generals and ministers loyal to the other faction. Either way, the government gets some dissent. More if Khalq prevails.
Once the USSR is no longer there to provide for the Government Forces and it's supplies are at a certain low number, there could be an event about Abdul Rashid Dostum, leader of the country's Uzbeks and one of the regime's best commanders switching sides, taking some manpower and units with him.

Some events and decisions that could be in the game to help the government:
Mohammad Najibullah replaces Babrak Karmal as HoS. This could give them some extra morale and lessen dissent. Najibullah could have a better HoS trait than Karmal.
Badaber Uprising - Soviet and Afghan prisoners in Pakistan try to escape, destroying a large amount of weapons in the process. Mujahedin and Pakistan gain dissent and lose some supplies. Maybe a 10% chance of the prisoners escaping, giving a small dissent reduction to Afghanistan and the USSR.

 

[Samilou]

I'm still thinking if I release another hotfix or just go straight to 0.2 but if you guys really want I can release it. About the Afghan War I wanted to make the war difficult in a way, since because of the egine it wouldn't be possible to represent proper assymetric warfare and it would be easy to just defeat them, so the idea was to make this a kind of war exhaustion. But I'm thinking of making some kind of Crisis in the Kremlin "motion of no confidence" event perhaps and an already planned dynamic coup system if you fail to balance your dissent.

It'd require some work, but if you make sure the casualty triggers for dissent events work correctly it will be pretty difficult and realistic indeed. Then you can also add temporary morale or org hits through events to the Soviet Union (when provinces are lost or casualties reach a certain level). You can also add some relation hits with western nations from prolonging the conflict and some motivations to keep relations good (no, not MAD, nobody will start a nuclear war over Afghanistan). You could make the war in Afghanistan a bargaining chip in diplomatic talks with the west, if you keep the war going.

 

[Deounce]

Can you tell me exactly when the crash happens?

Yes, it proceeds to load, then just crashes to desktop with no error message, and when i check the debug it doesn't list anything displaying errors.

 

[hansnery]

It'd require some work, but if you make sure the casualty triggers for dissent events work correctly it will be pretty difficult and realistic indeed. Then you can also add temporary morale or org hits through events to the Soviet Union (when provinces are lost or casualties reach a certain level). You can also add some relation hits with western nations from prolonging the conflict and some motivations to keep relations good (no, not MAD, nobody will start a nuclear war over Afghanistan). You could make the war in Afghanistan a bargaining chip in diplomatic talks with the west, if you keep the war going.

These casualty triggers are already in but Insert-Name thinks they are too harsh.

Yes, it proceeds to load, then just crashes to desktop with no error message, and when i check the debug it doesn't list anything displaying errors.

But I mean after what this starts to happen, because you played it until near reunification.