Turning Point 1989 [RELEASED]

[OnFire]

Talking about the deep blue sea, what about an air-cushioned landing craft brigade for naval infantry? Or ground effect vehicles?

 

[hansnery]

Sure,I can...but i just have to ask ..what is OOB

Order of Battle. It's the armed forces data.

AP is the real class symbol for troopships (not TP), and LHA is Landing Helicopter Assault Ship or basically modern escort carriers but also for amphibious assault support.

Just to add to what JRHINDO said, the letters AP apparently don't stand for anything and are strictly a hull or class designation. Here's a handy breakdown of them all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_classification_symbol

Thanks JRHINDO and Pasha, that's really helpful.

About socialist economics here ... I feel you guys are giving Tito's self-management policy too little credit. In an orderly society, it has already proven itself – right up to Tito's death, leaving me to conclude that its eventual failure was due to lack of a competent successor. Indeed, the fact that the great dictator was succeeded by a 'presidential committee' is just ridiculous. I believe workers' self-management is the key to making left-wing authoritarianism work. While the Soviets dismissed Yugoslavia as a 'capitalist country', I would argue that since production was state-owned and employee-managed, it's the closest a society of that magnitude has ever come to socialism - it's not mixed. Unlike China. But the Chinese have little to do with socialism. They admit it themselves, implying that they have to make the most of capitalism before they can reach full communism.

I was thinking about simulating Yugoslavia's political situation at the time making all the republics playable being 'puppets' of Serbia and depending on how Serbia try to integrate the country it can lead to the yugoslavian wars or not.

As I see there should be 3 or even 4 branches of carriers like it is in MDS.
1st - Super heavy carriers (USA branch)
2nd - Aircraft-carrying heavy cruisers (USSR branch)
3rd - Light carriers

CV-1 Kitty Hawk, Queen Elisabeth (both are non-nuclear)
CV-2 Enterprise, Orel 1160 project (USSR)
CV-3 Nimitz, "Ulyanovsk" (USSR)
CV-4 Gerald Ford
CV-5 ???

AC-1 Project 1123 «Kondor» (Moskva, Leningrad), Giuseppe Garibaldi
AC-2 Project 1143.1-4 "Krechet" (Kiev, Minsk etc.)
AC-3 Project 1143.5-6 "Admiral Kuznetsov, Varyag"
AC-4 ???
AC-5 ???


CVL-1 Centaur-class, Viraat, Clemenceau
CVL-2 Invincible-class, Principe de Asturias
CVL-3 Chakri Naraebet
CVL-4 SAC-220, Cavour
CVL-5 Izumo-class ??

I think the soviet branch can be simply solved by making airplane "brigades" for Destroyers through their naval doctrine. For the american super heavy carrier I think the super carrier that's already in is the same?

 

[Strikesback]

I think the soviet branch can be simply solved by making airplane "brigades" for Destroyers through their naval doctrine. For the american super heavy carrier I think the super carrier that's already in is the same?

Well I used the word super heavy just to oppose this USA branch to others. If we speak about light carriers it's wide spread trend in the world (11 000 -33000 ton).
Only Charles de Gaulle (42000 ton) hardly fit in this concept.
As for aircraft-carrying heavy cruisers they can not be destoyers, they are cruisers. I also think there is too much difference in deck construction to make such oversimplification.
The other branch is good to be presented - helicopter carrying assault ships. From USS Thetis Bay to Hyūga-class and Mistral-class. They will have transport capacity for land divisions and ability for "coastal bombardment" like CV.

 

[unmerged(184151)]

In the end days of cold war Bulgaria have -
Firs letst start from the airforce
224 MiG-21;
90 MiG-23
4 MiG-25;
22 MiG-29;
23 Su-22;
35 Su-25;
54 Mil Mi-24
3 An-24
2 An-26
50 Scud-B
8 SS-23
18 SS-21
MiG 23 was based in airfields in province of Montana an Sofia. MiG 29 and MiG 21 in airfields in Plovdiv and Burgas.And the Su 22 and Su 25 Yambol. MiG 25 are in bases of Dobrich/Bazargic on the map/.Helicopter bases were in Yambol Plovdiv and Stara Zagora.The transport planes shoul be in Plovdiv and Sofia.
The Scud-B, SS-23 and SS-21 rockets should be in Yambol and Stara Zagora provinces.
Bulgarian army have 1500 T-55 tanks , 200 T-62 , 400 T-72 and 1800 armoured personnel carriers /mainly MTLB and BRT 60/.
The main strenght of Bulgarian Army was focused in direction of Turkey / Plovdiv, Yambol, Burgas/
In the southern border /Greece and Turkey/ was build a fort line known as Krali Marko line which was destroyed after the fall of communism.
Also becouse there was a Nuclear Power Plant in province of Vraca /NPP Kozlodui with 5 reactors in 1988 and one under construction / the province should have big amount of AA there was a C-300 based in this region.
Bulgarian elite devision/special forces/ are primary two - paratrooper devision known as 68 Brigade based in Plovdiv and Tihina devision /navy-seals style/ based in Varna.
Bulgarian Navy has
2 devision (Pauk-class) corvette - "Reshitelni" and "Bodri" based in Varna
1 devision Koni-class frigate - "Smeli" based in Varna
1 devision Tarantul-class corvette - "Mulniya" based in Burgas
1 submarine devision Project 633/ Romeo class - "Slava" based in Varna
So is that what you mean with the OOB

 

[hansnery]

Well I used the word super heavy just to oppose this USA branch to others. If we speak about light carriers it's wide spread trend in the world (11 000 -33000 ton).
Only Charles de Gaulle (42000 ton) hardly fit in this concept.
As for aircraft-carrying heavy cruisers they can not be destoyers, they are cruisers. I also think there is too much difference in deck construction to make such oversimplification.
The other branch is good to be presented - helicopter carrying assault ships. From USS Thetis Bay to Hyūga-class and Mistral-class. They will have transport capacity for land divisions and ability for "coastal bombardment" like CV.

I meant cruisers, I've been reading too much soviet naval doctrines and they got stuck on my head
Could you draw a naval techtree? I've a feeling you know more of the subject than me.

In the end days of cold war Bulgaria have -
Firs letst start from the airforce
224 MiG-21;
90 MiG-23
4 MiG-25;
22 MiG-29;
23 Su-22;
35 Su-25;
54 Mil Mi-24
3 An-24
2 An-26
50 Scud-B
8 SS-23
18 SS-21
MiG 23 was based in airfields in province of Montana an Sofia. MiG 29 and MiG 21 in airfields in Plovdiv and Burgas.And the Su 22 and Su 25 Yambol. MiG 25 are in bases of Dobrich/Bazargic on the map/.Helicopter bases were in Yambol Plovdiv and Stara Zagora.The transport planes shoul be in Plovdiv and Sofia.
The Scud-B, SS-23 and SS-21 rockets should be in Yambol and Stara Zagora provinces.
Bulgarian army have 1500 T-55 tanks , 200 T-62 , 400 T-72 and 1800 armoured personnel carriers /mainly MTLB and BRT 60/.
The main strenght of Bulgarian Army was focused in direction of Turkey / Plovdiv, Yambol, Burgas/
In the southern border /Greece and Turkey/ was build a fort line known as Krali Marko line which was destroyed after the fall of communism.
Also becouse there was a Nuclear Power Plant in province of Vraca /NPP Kozlodui with 5 reactors in 1988 and one under construction / the province should have big amount of AA there was a C-300 based in this region.
Bulgarian elite devision/special forces/ are primary two - paratrooper devision known as 68 Brigade based in Plovdiv and Tihina devision /navy-seals style/ based in Varna.
Bulgarian Navy has
2 devision (Pauk-class) corvette - "Reshitelni" and "Bodri" based in Varna
1 devision Koni-class frigate - "Smeli" based in Varna
1 devision Tarantul-class corvette - "Mulniya" based in Burgas
1 submarine devision Project 633/ Romeo class - "Slava" based in Varna
So is that what you mean with the OOB

It's more or less this. But instead of numbers it would be easier if you told me the divisions and where they are, the same for airwings. But there's useful information here as well, so thank you.

Talking about the deep blue sea, what about an air-cushioned landing craft brigade for naval infantry? Or ground effect vehicles?

I think that the first can be represented abstractly inside the divisions already and the last only one was built and there's no clear use for them.

 

[Strikesback]

I meant cruisers, I've been reading too much soviet naval doctrines and they got stuck on my head
Could you draw a naval techtree? I've a feeling you know more of the subject than me.

Well now I'm working on new detailed tech tree from 1945 till 2030. Some ideas from MDS and NWO are good to be used but imho both trees are still far to be perfect.
Now I have it in excel file and it is about 20% ready. I'll try to give you preliminary data next week. Or maybe it would be even better to make this data open, because we might suddenly find some qualified specialists to consult.

 

[unmerged(184151)]

I have one idea Can you make neutron bomb /or bio or chemical / in the tech tree wich will have devastating effect on the devision but doing no damage to infrastructure and industry.
As for the devision i will do it like i do with the navy devisions, but just say how many people do you think 1 devision will be in your game,so my suggestion to be synchronised and correct

 

[MrNazar]

Fighters are done.

 

[Insert-Name]

OH man that's nice!!

 

[Aquamenti]

I was thinking about simulating Yugoslavia's political situation at the time making all the republics playable being 'puppets' of Serbia and depending on how Serbia try to integrate the country it can lead to the yugoslavian wars or not.

Well, economically, it might actually be more accurate, as the republics did enjoy a grade of autonomy, but internationally they were still recognized as a single state, it will ruin the map.

 

[hansnery]

Fighters are done.

Great job as always!

Well, economically, it might actually be more accurate, as the republics did enjoy a grade of autonomy, but internationally they were still recognized as a single state, it will ruin the map.

As far as I know they also enjoyed de facto political autonomy.

 

[novapaddy]

Just popped in to say Hello!

I hope things are going well for you. Cheers

 

[JRHINDO]

As far as I know they also enjoyed de facto political autonomy.

Defacto each US states and Russian CIS republics/oblasts also enjoy a degree of political and economic autonomy.

 

[OnFire]

Defacto each US states and Russian CIS republics/oblasts also enjoy a degree of political and economic autonomy.

So do the States of Germany and afaik England, Scotland etc. I think we should stick with single countries, as splitting them up would only decrease playability and increase the needed amount of modding (events, leaders, ministers) and also more room for bugs.

 

[hansnery]

So do the States of Germany and afaik England, Scotland etc. I think we should stick with single countries, as splitting them up would only decrease playability and increase the needed amount of modding (events, leaders, ministers) and also more room for bugs.

The idea was to make the future yugoslavian war more dynamic. They would depend on the level of centralisation the player with Yugoslavia(Serbia) would impose. As for what I read, after Tito died the federal government lost a lot of power and the other republics were pretty much independent. And it would give players the option to take one of the other republics and strive for independence or you can just try to slowly centralise and create a strong federal government again and avoiding the Yugoslav War at all. Asalto has already offered help with ministers and leaders if I implement this idea.

 

[OnFire]

The idea was to make the future yugoslavian war more dynamic. They would depend on the level of centralisation the player with Yugoslavia(Serbia) would impose. As for what I read, after Tito died the federal government lost a lot of power and the other republics were pretty much independent. And it would give players the option to take one of the other republics and strive for independence or you can just try to slowly centralise and create a strong federal government again and avoiding the Yugoslav War at all. Asalto has already offered help with ministers and leaders if I implement this idea.

So maybe like the Austrian / Hungarian Ausgleich in Kaiserreich where you also can have war and also reformation into a federation? That is quite intriguing I must say.

 

[Chad44]

This mod looks amazing.

 

[al3xytp]

This mod makes me want to buy Darkest Hour.

 

[Deounce]

You should buy Darkest Hour, its really good. Im holding over on NWO until this mod comes out

 

[Insert-Name]

This mod makes me want to buy Darkest Hour.

You DON'T own Darkest Hour?

Problem #1 right there my friend