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Olaus Petrus

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In the legends first Pecheneg is a grandson of Oghuz Khaghan like other Oghuzes. According to Divanu Lughati't Turk (Compendium of the languages of the Turks) by Mahmud of Kashgar, Pechenegs are speaks like Turkmens but uses idoms like Cumans and was part of Oghuz Confederation.

Yes, Mahmud identified Pecheneg as a Turkic language, but he or no one else gives enough information about the language that it can be classified as part of one group of Turkic languages or another. And when it comes to legends of Oghuz the dragon slayer, I wouldn't put too much value to those legends (which were written down centures after the alleged events). In legends he is father of all Turkic peoples. While sometimes legendary family trees of the nations are based on reality, sometimes those are fictional (like ties between Normans and Welsh, because both Danes and Britons are descendants of the Trojans). My point was that we don't really know enough about Pechenegs to say anything sure about their ethnicity and language.
 

solamyas

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That legend isn't about ethnicity but structure of Oghuz Confederation and neither legend nor confederation includes all Turkic peoples.

Lets forget about legends. All the same they were part of the confederation, the term Oghuz includes them too. And main bulk of Pechenegs quits the confederation but there was still Pechenegs in the Oghuz Yabguate.

If you'd have said Turkmen instead of Oghuz...
 

Prince Michael

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The Kyrgyz look nothing like Turkish portraits but they still get them anyways:


In fact, nobody looks like the Turkish faces. They just look weird and grey.

Are you happy with any aspect of this game? It seems that you just complain and complain in every thread?



Anyway, it's obvious that the portrait pack covers lots and lots of different ethnicities in wide area and tries to find and portray some of the variety but still generalizes (and succeeds in it, IMO). You can disable the DLC if you find Arab portraits more suitable for Kyrgyz people. They won't release a portrait pack restricted exclusively to Kyrgyz people, that's for sure.
 

Alcadizzar19

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No matter how it makes Turks look like corpse-men, at least they don't look like the mudpeople of the Mediterranean portrait pack.

Only DLC pack I've bought for CK2 that I actively regret and refuse to play with it on.
 

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No matter how it makes Turks look like corpse-men, at least they don't look like the mudpeople of the Mediterranean portrait pack.

Only DLC pack I've bought for CK2 that I actively regret and refuse to play with it on.

Best description of the Med. face pack I've ever seen, lol. I must say, though, I really like the Turkish clothes.
 

snarf137

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.
 

Garak

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.

I don't dislike them, I just find the color distracting.
 

Darsara

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.

As I said, I also like them in general; just not really the skin tone. Otherwise happy with it.
 

Prince Michael

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.

Exactly my thoughts. I always thought the lighting was different. Or I had shades on or something
 

cybrxkhan

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.

Indeed, I think the problem with the color of the skin on the Turkish faces isn't so much the color themselves, but rather they aren't as consistent with the other portraits.
 

Baibars

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Am I the only one which likes the Turkish facepack? It seems to be one of the best ones yet, imo. The faces look incredibly realistic compared to most other portrait packs and I attribute the grey colour more to a difference in lighting. Really, this is probably the best facepack so far.
I also think they look really good. Especially compared to the godawful Russian and Mediterranean portraits. I've even sort of gotten used to the greyish color by now. Almost.

By the way, does anyone know if that one mod that made the Med portraits less ugly is compatible with RoI? I can never seem to find it so I haven't checked.
 

soda7777777

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Ok, I got this. They are way too grey. This has gotta be a bug.
 

Olaus Petrus

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That legend isn't about ethnicity but structure of Oghuz Confederation and neither legend nor confederation includes all Turkic peoples.

Lets forget about legends. All the same they were part of the confederation, the term Oghuz includes them too. And main bulk of Pechenegs quits the confederation but there was still Pechenegs in the Oghuz Yabguate.

If you'd have said Turkmen instead of Oghuz...

Yes, it explains which tribes are descendants of Oghuz and there are several versions of it. There are late versions of the legend which claim for example that Oghuz was Muslim and ancestor of Genghis Khan and the khans of the Golden Horde. Should we use Ottoman, Persian, Uighur or some other version of the legend?

In Jewish, Christian and Arabic sources Pechenegs are usually their own group separate from other Turkic groups like Oghuz or Khazars.
 

solamyas

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Yes, it explains which tribes are descendants of Oghuz and there are several versions of it. There are late versions of the legend which claim for example that Oghuz was Muslim and ancestor of Genghis Khan and the khans of the Golden Horde. Should we use Ottoman, Persian, Uighur or some other version of the legend?

In Jewish, Christian and Arabic sources Pechenegs are usually their own group separate from other Turkic groups like Oghuz or Khazars.

You said it, they are late versions. The sole benefit of examining changed ones is understanding influence of Arabs, Islam, Mongols etc. on their culture. Non-Supernatural parts of Oghuz Khagan's life in the earliest known version tell us the same story of Maodun that writen by Chinese from Maodun's time. Maodun is Khan of Xiongnu and he is not an Oghuz Turk, that legend isn't about ethnicity. Its purpose is to tells how different tribes become allies under Xiongnu rule.

Jews, Christians, and Arabs meet with Pechenegs after most of them left Transoxiana. Why you have bias against Turkic and Persian sources? Mahmud of Kashgar clearly explains hierarchy within the Oghuzes. Pechenegs splits to two group, naturally bigger group is the better known group. Smaller group's descendant still live in Turkey, they settled during Seljuks conquest. You can see their Tamga in hand-woven rugs and carpets If you visits known Pecheneg vilages.

If you want to speak about differences between independent Pechenegs and their former allies say "Turkmen" instead of "Oghuz".
 

Olaus Petrus

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You said it, they are late versions. The sole benefit of examining changed ones is understanding influence of Arabs, Islam, Mongols etc. on their culture. Non-Supernatural parts of Oghuz Khagan's life in the earliest known version tell us the same story of Maodun that writen by Chinese from Maodun's time. Maodun is Khan of Xiongnu and he is not an Oghuz Turk, that legend isn't about ethnicity. Its purpose is to tells how different tribes become allies under Xiongnu rule.

Jews, Christians, and Arabs meet with Pechenegs after most of them left Transoxiana. Why you have bias against Turkic and Persian sources? Mahmud of Kashgar clearly explains hierarchy within the Oghuzes. Pechenegs splits to two group, naturally bigger group is the better known group. Smaller group's descendant still live in Turkey, they settled during Seljuks conquest. You can see their Tamga in hand-woven rugs and carpets If you visits known Pecheneg vilages.

If you want to speak about differences between independent Pechenegs and their former allies say "Turkmen" instead of "Oghuz".

Nothing, besides source criticism. I'm equally sceptical towards any other sources. All I'm saying that we don't have enough evidence to proof one theory over another. Any serious scholar agrees with this point of view.
 

The_13th_Ronin

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The face color in game must be bugged. Its not what I see in steam screens.

I just checked the STEAM screens... Yeah that is some serious discrepancies there.