Turkey, the best minor nation to play ?

[Jeremy971]

When I read the DDs of HOI4. Everything that goes wrong in HOI3 has been removed...

The government, neutrality, ... I think with the new system, you will be able to play a fascist Turkey in one or two years. Go to war whenever you want. And build a new muslim faction with Irak, Persia, Saudia to launch the biggest djihad as the world has never known...

 

[KiwiNoob]

Against SU what I do is Binary infantry divisions of 2 INF 1 ART 1 AT. Because SU has soo many tanks.

You might want to try that out.

I used to go that route but it's a false economy. You're much better off with 3 x MTN, 1 AT. Binary divisions just don't have the toughness/defensiveness:

• MTN/INF both have much better toughness/defensiveness than ART. MTN has better ORG too.
• MTN will work much better than INF in a lot of terrain you'll be fighting in while ART operates poorly in that terrain
• ART is very expensive in terms of IC and smaller nations struggle to afford it. Once you're at war and upgrades come along almost all your IC is required just to upgrade the ART.
• No ART means 2 x less research projects needed
• If you go all MTN it means 2 x less research projects needed (sans INF doctrines)

If you feel like leaving the hills and mountains to push into the SU plains then seriously consider a second AT brigade as your 5th otherwise you'll get totally rolled by HARM divisions.

 

[Jeremy971]

The unit composition in Bice is so different.

It's one main line + 4 supports + HQ and now they added transport...

My moutain division is

Mount + reco + hq + pack arty + pack at + horses...

I haven't played hoi3 for 2 years. And the new version of Bice gives me headaches...

 

[KiwiNoob]

Good headaches or bad ones?

 

[Jeremy971]

Good ones. It's Heart of Iron

 

[Yakdast]

I used to play Turkey in HOI2, HOI3 and Darkest Hour. It was quite uneventful unless you plan on aligning with one of the three major factions. Aside from the annexation of Hatay, there is not much happening. If I join the Axis, then I will have to attack Iraq and Soviet Transcaucasia to gain access to oil and boost my industry. Speaking of which, the infrastructure is bad and industry overall is insignificant.

But I think that given what we've seen so far from devdiaries, it's possible to make Turkey much more interesting in HOI4.

 

[KiwiNoob]

Industry is insignificant?

I think people are too used to playing the majors who have so much IC they don't know what to do with it all. Turkey has boatloads of IC if you're frugal. Just say 'No' to ART + ARM. The you'll have plenty left over for air force and a specialized navy.

HOI4 will be great because you can still get some ARM divisions through LL

 

[Jeremy971]

I failed again.

I understood that I have to attack Balkan as soon as possible.

I made a mistake in building industries in 1936 because Greece, Bulgaria and Yougoslavia had enough IC to provide me what I needed.

In more, the neutrality system bother me a lot. And I thought I was smarter than you so I didn't increase the threat of Bulgaria. I attacked in july 1940... Too late to get Yougoslavia.

The Balkan is the key of victory with Turkey...

And I will build planes and divisions in 1936.

BICE is sooo haaaard now !!!

 

[MajorHeartfire]

Turkey in Multiplayer would actually be very interesting. They are both a door to Soviet Russia, and a new front for Germany and the Axis to hold.

I bet, after conquest of the Balkans, that Italy and Turkey would actually be pretty fairly matched. But aligning Turkey with the Allies and having to wait for them to come and save it would be devastating...

 

[Krafty]

Yeah black ice is far different than vanilla.

My Taurus Mountains defensive line divisions were Mountain infantry-Light Inf-Superheavy Arty-HQ defense battalion-HQ-Horse Transport. With a back up of Garrison Inf-Super Heavy Arty-Heavy AA (better at AT)-HQ.

Those two divisions stopped the Russians dead in their tracks. I also built up some basic defenses and 1 level of pillbox.

For attacking I went 2xMountain-Light Inf-Engineers-Pack arty-HQ-Horse transport. Mediocre stats but basically unkillable. Once you finally take a province utilizing the bonus from multiple attack vectors, takes a while, the Russians simply cant take it back if its hills or mountains. Youll claw your way to Baku, then north to Rostov, generally before the Germans get there.

This deprives both the Germans and the Russians of all that oil, which is nice in BICE since they actually run short. You can later edit your save game and take yourself out of the axis and attack Germany if you wanted. No one but you and the US can field giant armies of Mechanized Infantry and Super Heavy Tanks at that point.

 

[Krafty]

Youd also have to edit the save game to give yourself some slice of the pie when Bitter Peace happens.

Peace deals in HOI3...what a travesty.

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

I don't know. I always perceived Turkey's geopolitical situation as very dire. Finding itself at the crossroads between european fascism, the allied-colonial sphere and the soviet hordes is a tricky spot. My best bet to survive the war would be neutrality as IRL. A war could wreck Turkey really fast and leave it vulnerable and they won't be able to do much about it since it will all depend on the major powers and how the war swings in their favor in the Balkans, Central Asia and the Middle East.

I would only recommend Turkey to veteran and skilled players as a world war will place it in the very eye of the storm. Incredibly fun but hard as hell.

 

[KiwiNoob]

Hugely defensible though. All those sweet hills and mountains....

 

[Jeremy971]

With the new modification of BICE, it's impossible to align to Axis before 1940...

My neutrality is under 10 in 1940 but the modder has removed the -.02 neutrality in annual event. So when I attack, it's at the same time than Italy...

And above all, Greece, Yougoslavia and sometimes Romania create an alliance to defend their independence. Despite this fact, I tried to attack them. I did puppet Romania. But Greece and Yougoslavia were so strongs...

So my game failed again ! Raaaaaah ITS SOOO HARD !

Any suggestion to blitz the Balkan ? I attacked in May 1940. Defeat Bulgaria is easy. I had luck with Romania and capture the country in one month. But Greece and above all Yougoslavia is so tough !

I think I forgot something in updating my infantry or with the composition. Because when Italy attacked, in two weeks, it has destroyed Greece and Yougoslavia.

Snif, help...

 

[PanosB3]

Wouldn't consider Turkey a minor power, if it entered the war it would have had a significant effect on both sides if it joined, think regional power suits best to describe it. But yeah I imagine turkey and spain will be so fun and unpredictable to play as.

 

[BBBD316]

Well I think if it joins the Axis in 1940 then maybe, MAYBE, the Uk would have been in some real trouble. Imagine a smaller Africa Korps with the Italians holding the line and then Guderian and Rommel flying down from Turkey to occupy the Middle East.

If Arabia and Egypt fall before the end of 1940, it may just cause the UK to come to the table.

 

[Jeremy971]

Yeah. Turkey is what was missing in 1940. If they joined Axis. Hitler would probably gave them Egypt, Greece and Iraq

 

[soldierpat117]

Yeah. Turkey is what was missing in 1940. If they joined Axis. Hitler would probably gave them Egypt, Greece and Iraq

Had Hitler done that, Mussolini and the Italians would have flipped their shit, considering that they wanted Greece.

 

[PanosB3]

Yeah. Turkey is what was missing in 1940. If they joined Axis. Hitler would probably gave them Egypt, Greece and Iraq

And break Mussolini's dream of reviving ''Mare Nostrum''? Nah aint happening, also Mussolini dreamed of having Italian colonies (Lybia+Egypt+Soudan+Ethiopia), too many clashes of interest.

 

[KiwiNoob]

I've run several simulations in HOI3 and I can say with certainty that if Turkey had joined the Axis, Barbarossa would have been a success and the Axis would have won WW2.