Turkey in WW II

[unmerged(7536)]

This is a question for the developers.

How will Turkey be handled in the HOI?

Turkey didnot participate in WW2, But it could have been a shorter or longer war if they went with the allies or axis respectively (could have, maybe .... )

So anyhow how will Turkey fit into this whole thing. Thanks..

 

[L G]

what do u mean? they will just b handled as any other small nation that is playable, but in my own opinion i would have liked 2 c what they could have done on the axis side, hopefully their bad performance would have been worn off after the first world war

 

[unmerged(7536)]

I meant it is playable right?

Oh that's so good to know.

Well with the axis imagine when the Germans and the Russians are fighting in Stalingrad, and then a Turkish army to the east appears!

Or Turkey takes back mideast and oil, and drives through egypt to back up Rommel.

Or how about a joint attack with Germans through Iran to India?


Of course thats with the axis.

If they were with the allies probably the only theater would be a push with the Americans and British through the Balkans. Or to relieve the Russians up north.

Many possibilities, but Turkey is right in the middle of the European, African and South Asian theaters.

I can't wait to try out all of them!

 

[unmerged(4959)]

Originally posted by Sokollu
Turkey didnot participate in WW2

Actually, Turkey declared war on the Axis powers in February 1945. This was because founding membership of the planned United Nations Organization required the country in question to be part of the military alliance against Germany and Japan.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Other than the diplomatic thing about the UN at the end of the war, there really isn't anything Turkey has to gain by getting involved in the war. All the territory Turkey lost in WWI was to nations on the Allied side. They gain nothing by helping the Allies unless maybe they want a piece of Bulgaria. Getting involved on the Axis side would probably not tip the scales enough to change the final outcome, but it would get their government removed and risk a Soviet occupation (at least partially - the West would have a cow over the idea of the Red Army on the Bosporus, though). The Turks did the right thing, from their perspective.

If they were smarter, though, they would have tooled up industrial expansion and sold stuff to both sides. They had a land border with the Reich (through allied Bulgaria & occupied Greece), the British Empire (through Iraq & Free French Syria) and the USSR.

 

[unmerged(9167)]

Why not makes it possible for Turkey to retool and decide if stay netural or join either sides, maybe even declare war on both Allies and Axis .

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

Will there be any penalty for the Axis player to blitz right through Turkey to get to the MidEast instead of Barbarossa? Maybe a stab hit, as Turkey wasn't in the Lebensraum plan.

 

[unmerged(7536)]

Well the Germans and the Turks were old allies. And there were still remnants of pro-German people in the parliment.


They also did sell copper and metals to the Germans, was a passage to Jews to Palestine, and wa buying planes and equipment from the Americans.

So there were a lot things going on with both sides.

BTW are there going to be events in HOI?

There were some spy killing and chasing in Istanbul...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Here is a likely scenario of what would happen if Turkey declared war on Germany in the early years of the war:

1940 - Turkey joins the allies in their war against Germany.
October 1941 - Germany invades Turkey.
November 1941 - Turkey is annexed by Germany. A puppet fascist government is installed.
January 1942 - Germany uses access through Turkey to strike at the virtually undefended middle east, to gain oil and other resources.
April 1943 - Germany now has a new front with which to attack the Soviet Union.
June 1945 - The Soviet Union makes it's last stand in the Ural mountains, and fails.
March 1947 - Germany, who is now in control of all of Europe, invades the United States across both the Atlantic, and across the Bering Strait.
May 1947 - Germans enter the abandoned American Capital unopposed. The United States detonates an atomic bomb, killing the German army there.
June 1947 - Germany and the United States sign a peace treaty.
April 1950 - The United States, Canada, Mexico and all other remaining democracies unite in an alliance agaisnt any future war with Germany.
1951 - Germany detonates her first atomic bomb in Siberia. A cold war between The Western Hemisphere Alliance and the Axis sets in.
1955 - Imperial Japan and Germany go to war over control of Eurasia.
1956 - With Japan facing defeat, the Western Hemisphere alliance enters the war against Germany. World War 3 begins.

All because Turkey wanted to "help" the Allies.

A hypothetical scenario. I was bored.

 

[unmerged(7536)]

Have you no knowledge of history?

When was the last time Asia Minor was invaded and held more than 2 years? (Both Timur and the Greeks were gone in 2 years...)

I can never see Turkey annexed, of course if they joined the axis most of the things you said could have come true..


Fighting for Eurasia, what's next? "the chocolate production has allowed 100 grams more for every brother this week?"

Very George Orwellish...

 

[unmerged(5845)]

How's this for a hypothetical scenario?- Attaturk lives past his scheduled death date in history (1938) and on to seeing WWII. Would be interesting.

 

[unmerged(9129)]

Originally posted by Sokollu
I meant it is playable right?

Oh that's so good to know.

Well with the axis imagine when the Germans and the Russians are fighting in Stalingrad, and then a Turkish army to the east appears!

Or Turkey takes back mideast and oil, and drives through egypt to back up Rommel.

Or how about a joint attack with Germans through Iran to India?


Of course thats with the axis.

If they were with the allies probably the only theater would be a push with the Americans and British through the Balkans. Or to relieve the Russians up north.

Many possibilities, but Turkey is right in the middle of the European, African and South Asian theaters.

I can't wait to try out all of them!

turkey in ww2 wasnt strong enought to invade a country, they were like Italy... Italy was imcompetent, couldnt even invade greece or the southern part of france, im very sure turkey would have done the same imcompetence that italy did.

 

[unmerged(9129)]

Originally posted by Sokollu
Have you no knowledge of history?

When was the last time Asia Minor was invaded and held more than 2 years? (Both Timur and the Greeks were gone in 2 years...)

I can never see Turkey annexed, of course if they joined the axis most of the things you said could have come true..


Fighting for Eurasia, what's next? "the chocolate production has allowed 100 grams more for every brother this week?"

Very George Orwellish...

i know ur a fan of turkey but, turkey wasnt event strong and could be invaded and anexed by germany faster... France had the best army in 1939 and 1 year later when germany started the war against france then they got invaded in 1 month... what i mean is that turkey wouldnt resist to the germans, and if they were of the germans side, then they wouldnt do much, same like italy... only making mistakes.

 

[John Poole]

Originally posted by Sokollu
Have you no knowledge of history?

When was the last time Asia Minor was invaded and held more than 2 years? (Both Timur and the Greeks were gone in 2 years...)

I can never see Turkey annexed, of course if they joined the axis most of the things you said could have come true..


Fighting for Eurasia, what's next? "the chocolate production has allowed 100 grams more for every brother this week?"

Very George Orwellish...

Well since Asia Minor was protected by the Great Powers to prevent Russia from dominating the Eastern Med I would probably grant its impregnability to political rather then military reasons. Muhammed Ali (The Egyptian Pasha not the boxer) had no problem capturing Asia Minor as I recall . He probably would have taken Istanbul if the Ottoman Empire's protectors didn't come to its rescue. Turkish military history from 1760 on was dismal...to put it politely though their soldiers did show remarkable bravery when well led (which was rarely the case unfortunately).

Timur didn't want Asia Minor...actually I love that story. Good old machismo at work.

Timur- Why are you attacking my vassals? I am a giant empire destroying the greatest powers of the medieval world not to mention burning cities to the ground and stacking their skulls in pyramids!

Bayezid- Bah! My tiny corps of Janissaries will easily crush your giant army of Mongols! Bring it on punk, you're not man enough to attack me!

Doh! Fortunately for the Ottoman Turks their European enemies were so hopelessly inferior and their institutions of government so strong along with their high quality leadership, their humiliation was only a minor annoyance in their rise to power. Actually their machismo was a major factor in their success, see Sokollu's Suleiman quote in his signature. Sokollu was Suleiman's last Grand Vizier, the one that ran the Empire while Selim the drunkard indulged his wine fixation?

Anyway if the Germans could crush the Greeks in two weeks, despite British military support, I see no reason they could not have done the same to the Turks in a month or less. Certainly if the Turks wanted to join with the Germans to add more corpses to the death machine on the Eastern Front they could though I dont think their assistance would have been decisive.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

If Germany could crush France, I am certain they could have conquered Turkey. Certainly Turkey could not have been more powerful than France at this time....

 

[AlanC9]

But could they have crushed Turkey quickly ? It's a pretty difficult country to campaign in, especially with a only a limited logistical structure available in Bulgaria for the Germans to use. They could have been in Istanbul fast, but crossing the Dardanelles would have been a bit of a chore. And Turkey is a good deal larger than Greece.

Any Axis attack on Turkey would have put the attack on Russia off until 1942 in any event.

 

[unmerged(3168)]

Don't forget the majority of the terrain in Turkey is mountainous, over 1000km's of it. It's 100% perfect country for Guerillia warfare. So even if Germany could conquer Turkey could they then afford to garrison it let alone use it as a supply line to attack the USSR or the British in Africa?

 

[unmerged(7024)]

I suspect that the greatest benefit of Turkey joining the Axis would be the possibility of Edelwiess wearing soldiers reaching Baku by the winter of 1941. To refer to that as an unmitigated disaster for the poor Red Army would be damning it with faint praise, and there's little reason to suspect the local troops would have performed much better than their buddies defending Minsk or Kiev. Besides, if there was any region where the locals would side with the invaders over the Russians, it was the Caucasian mountains.

Besides; Caucasian oil, unlike Persian, could have been shipped to the Reich (after some railroad work). Not that the Germans would want it...

 

[Emre Yigit]

Hmmm.

If I remember correctly, practically the entire Turkish army was in Thrace. I suspect that in 1940-1941 the quality of Turkish materiel could have easily held off the Italians, and maybe even the Germans (you know, your Tech 11 armies do sometimes lose against Tech 4). If Hitler had chosen Barbarossa-by-the-Bosphorus in 1942, I would say the chances of the Turks resisting for long would have been miniscule.

But then, I suspect the guerilla was would have sapped German resources. Even so, I would aver that Hitler chose the harder route IRL, and should have gone through Turkey.

Very happy he did not, of course.

By the way, if the game is to play the Turkish minor, then there should be at least two event choices as to whether to enter the war. In say, 1941, with neutrality weighted at 80%, an alliance with the axis at 15% and the allies at 5%; and in 1943, neutrality at 80%, axis at 5%, and allies at 15%.

 

[unmerged(1973)]

Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
Will there be any penalty for the Axis player to blitz right through Turkey to get to the MidEast instead of Barbarossa? Maybe a stab hit, as Turkey wasn't in the Lebensraum plan.

Anatolia isn't exactly blitz terrain...