Tungsten in the UK

[nsr433]

I'm unsure of whether the developers known about the Hemerdon Tungsten and Tine Mine. Deposits were found in the 1860s and in WWI due to a shortage of tungsten a mine was sunk in 1917 and was operational in 1918. The deposits were expensive to pull out of the ground and it closed in the 1930s but opened in 1939 and in 1944 was closed down. It was opened again in 2014 because the price of tungsten ore went though the roof.(Although not as much as Silver Thursday. When the price of silver increased by over 700%)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakelands_Mine#1867.E2.80.931959

http://www.wolfminerals.com.au/irm/content/drakelands-mine.aspx?RID=324&RedirectCount=1

 

[Axe99]

Nice detail . Any idea how significant the output of the mine was relative to overall tungsten use (ie, would it rate on the HoI resource scale)?

 

[LordOfWar16]

Yea, i agree with @Axe99. While certainly interesting, i dont know if it really would be enough for the scale of HoI. As you said it was expensive to pull and constantly closed and re-opened. In HoI IV terms it would have to be an constant stream, tho. Maybe you get some when you upgrade your excavation tools in the tech tree, but i actually doubt that.

 

[cacra]

Yea, i agree with @Axe99. While certainly interesting, i dont know if it really would be enough for the scale of HoI. As you said it was expensive to pull and constantly closed and re-opened. In HoI IV terms it would have to be an constant stream, tho. Maybe you get some when you upgrade your excavation tools in the tech tree, but i actually doubt that.

During the War it was opened for a substantial and continuous amount of time.

 

[Axe99]

During the War it was opened for a substantial and continuous amount of time.

Aye, I think that if the amount extracted rated on the HoI scale, it should be in. I just don't know much about the rates of tungsten extraction during the period (or before or after either ).

 

[cacra]

Aye, I think that if the amount extracted rated on the HoI scale, it should be in. I just don't know much about the rates of tungsten extraction during the period (or before or after either ).

I think your idea is a good one though; it would be nice to have some sort of flavour event where we can increase tungsten output in exchange for some investment (be it tech or resources) - I don't think it will happen though, maybe in a mod.

 

[LordOfWar16]

@cacra atleast for gameplay sake it would be more interesting not including it in my oppinion. Having to import and trade that stuff makes the whole war more interesting and challenging for the UK, since they have to protect the convoys shipping the resources to mainland UK.

 

[Axe99]

@cacra atleast for gameplay sake it would be more interesting not including it in my oppinion. Having to import and trade that stuff makes the whole war more interesting and challenging for the UK, since they have to protect the convoys shipping the resources to mainland UK.

If the trade system is modelled well though, one tungsten mine won't make a difference - during the actual conflict, the UK was absolutely dependent on trade to keep it going (at the very least as a military power) - so improving the accuracy of what needs trading for and what doesn't shouldn't change how interesting gameplay is for the UK player. Generally speaking, it's easier to design and balance for the historical period if the design sticks to the historical period where possible, rather than the other way around, and historically the Battle of the Atlantic was crazy important even though there was a tungsten mine in the UK .

 

[cacra]

@cacra atleast for gameplay sake it would be more interesting not including it in my oppinion. Having to import and trade that stuff makes the whole war more interesting and challenging for the UK, since they have to protect the convoys shipping the resources to mainland UK.

It may also be fun to implement a land connection between Britain and mainland France, it would certainly make Britain's defence of France more desperate.

 

[LordOfWar16]

It may also be fun to implement a land connection between Britain and mainland France, it would certainly make Britain's defence of France more desperate.

well, there was one thousand years ago, but mother nature had other plans. That would make operation sealion and d-day pretty much obsolete of course. Attack the forts on the landbridge from the front and land paratroopers in the back and you are in london pretty quickly.

 

[cacra]

well, there was one thousand years ago, but mother nature had other plans. That would make operation sealion and d-day pretty much obsolete of course. Attack the forts on the landbridge from the front and land paratroopers in the back and you are in london pretty quickly.

Why is that important? Gameplay>accuracy.

 

[Bhaal]

Why is that important? Gameplay>accuracy.

Why not gameplay=accuracy? A land bridge would be ridiculous and render the previous thousand years of history obsolete.

 

[cacra]

Why not gameplay=accuracy? A land bridge would be ridiculous and render the previous thousand years of history obsolete.

It is no more ridiculous than the argument that resources should be excluded from the British mainland to 'make gameplay more enjoyable.'

 

[LordOfWar16]

It is no more ridiculous than the argument that resources should be excluded from the British mainland to 'make gameplay more enjoyable.'

there is a difference in including an small tungsten income compared to adding an completly unaccurate landbridge, which makes it way too easy for the axis and removes pretty much all the fun and skill in trying to defeat the british.

about 180 tons of pure tungsten from 1043 to 1944 really is nothing at all in the grand scheme. The mine simply isnt significant enough for the scale of HoI IV, since it was constantly closed down and only open for 1 year during the war. For comparison, Burma produced more than half of the total tungsten in the british empire.

The new plant took over operation from the old plant in 1943, and theoretically should have been able to treat over 1 million tonnes per year; however labour shortages and mechanical faults resulted in a much lower production. Ore output from a mixture of underground and opencast mining methods was documented as over 200,000 tonnes, with a resulting 180 tonnes of tin/tungsten concentrate during the period of government operation. Operations ceased in June 1944 due to access to overseas supplies being restored.

 

[Axe99]

there is a difference in including an small tungsten income compared to adding an completly unaccurate landbridge, which makes it way too easy for the axis and removes pretty much all the fun and skill in trying to defeat the british.

about 180 tons of pure tungsten from 1043 to 1944 really is nothing at all in the grand scheme. The mine simply isnt significant enough for the scale of HoI IV, since it was constantly closed down and only open for 1 year during the war. For comparison, Burma produce

On your first point, while it's different in scale, it's not in principle. The arguments for favouring gameplay over plausibility are often as logically shakey as those favouring plausibility over gameplay. That said, and far more interestingly, how much did Burma actually produce? Way to leave us hanging .

 

[LordOfWar16]

On your first point, while it's different in scale, it's not in principle. The arguments for favouring gameplay over plausibility are often as logically shakey as those favouring plausibility over gameplay. That said, and far more interestingly, how much did Burma actually produce? Way to leave us hanging .

Burma was the biggest suppliers of tungsten for the british. More than half of the total tungsten of the british empire came from burma.

 

[Axe99]

Burma was the biggest suppliers of tungsten for the british. More than half of the total tungsten of the british empire came from burma.

Aye, but how much - without an actual tonnage (preferably total tonnage used during WW2 by the UK), that doesn't help - Burma providing half the tungsten could mean hemerdon provided a quarter, which is comfortably significant on the HoI scale. Also, what happened after Burma was taken by Japan?

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

https://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&sour...CDIwCQ&usg=AFQjCNFTTDWpwIUhsrrANq9_O6aLifNUDw

According to that Burma peaked at slightly higher output than Portugal during WW2. The mines in England peaked at less than 1/20th of that. Should still be significant enough to represent in the game though.

I suspect tungsten production in Burma was not particularly huge concern for Japan as they had so many other sources and this was the most distant from Japan.

 

[cacra]

about 180 tons of pure tungsten from 1043 to 1944 really is nothing at all in the grand scheme. The mine simply isnt significant enough for the scale of HoI IV, since it was constantly closed down and only open for 1 year during the war. For comparison, Burma produce

This is a reasonable position to make. Your original one - of making a mythological world to improve gameplay - was not.

 

[Alwar]

https://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&sour...CDIwCQ&usg=AFQjCNFTTDWpwIUhsrrANq9_O6aLifNUDw

According to that Burma peaked at slightly higher output than Portugal during WW2. The mines in England peaked at less than 1/20th of that. Should still be significant enough to represent in the game though.

I suspect tungsten production in Burma was not particularly huge concern for Japan as they had so many other sources and this was the most distant from Japan.

According to that spain production is huge too, roughly half than portugal with similar veins but in the WWW vids one can see spain have 0 production in the commerce window.