Tukhachevsky's Army and the Politburo (Interactive TFH 4.02) -- Admin thread

[Dadarian]

I have yet to chime in on the navy debate, so I'll present the opinion as the People's Kommissar of Finance. It is a waste of resources, a waste of men, and a waste of time. The amount of work to create a modern navy, both in size and advancements, is too wasteful compared to the rewards the people of the Union would receive.

I wish to also state that the Alternative Influence Plan is utterly unacceptable. It would waste too many resources and stretch every faucet of our worker's society past the limits of cohesion. As such, any and all members should oppose this.

~ Comrade Hryhoriy Fedorovych Hrynko; Narkomfin

 

[oskar-kar]

Comrades, modernization of the navy is waste of resources and manpower, we have reports from our friends from Germany(our agents) that this country is preparing themselves for land war, they're investing in modern tanks, fast vehicles and foot units, we can't afford failures with Germans like in the past, our army must be strong. Also, if we need more informations from first hand, our Commissar for Education, Sergei Petrovich Soldatov, can assign me and few others spies to Germany, for better intel.

- Comrade Dmitri Dmitriyevich Koychev; Unofficial agent of NKVD (currently in Poland)

((of course it's just a Roleplay, but if Novatheorem would write something about assigning me to Germany, I will be present such informations as my own, not my "friends"))

 

[son of liberty]

Comrades, modernization the navy is waste of resources and manpower, we have reports from our friends from Germany(our agents) that this country is preparing themselves for land war, they're investing in modern tanks, fast vehicles and foot units, we can't afford failures with Germans like in the past, our army must be strong. Also, if we need more informations from first hand, our Commissar for Education, Sergei Petrovich Soldatov, can assign me and few others spies to Germany, for better intel.

- Comrade Dmitri Dmitriyevich Koychev; Unofficial agent of NKVD (currently in Poland)

I absolutely agree with what most have said about not increasing the navy until after the Huns are done. However, using transports to move our troops around low infrastructure areas will give us a huge advantage in Finland, Sweden, Romania, and Turkey. While I suggest a single run of 5 transports, bringing us to 6 and allowing a full corps to move in as a cohesive unit, even 2 additional transports can do a lot for us in those theaters. I recommend we keep at least 2 of our current battleships and 3 screens(cruisers or destroyers) to protect those transports from the Swedish and Turkish navies which include battle cruisers. Keeping 1-3 of our best subs for intelligence would not be a bad idea, but is not as important.

((Keep in mind that the winter war gives us a limited time to achieve annexation before we are forced to peace by event))

 

[Sakura_F]

I absolutely agree with what most have said about not increasing the navy until after the Huns are done. However, using transports to move our troops around low infrastructure areas will give us a huge advantage in Finland, Sweden, Romania, and Turkey. While I suggest a single run of 5 transports, bringing us to 6 and allowing a full corps to move in as a cohesive unit, even 2 additional transports can do a lot for us in those theaters. I recommend we keep at least 2 of our current battleships and 3 screens(cruisers or destroyers) to protect those transports from the Swedish and Turkish navies which include battle cruisers. Keeping 1-3 of our best subs for intelligence would not be a bad idea, but is not as important.

((Keep in mind that the winter war gives us a limited time to achieve annexation before we are forced to peace by event))

((Isn't there an option to continue fighting to "bring them socialism" that breaks the NAP between Germany and Russia?))

 

[son of liberty]

((Isn't there an option to continue fighting to "bring them socialism" that breaks the NAP between Germany and Russia?))

((In my test TFH game, I received no such option, which is why in my second test I built 5 transports and kept the entire starting navy rebased to Leningrad. It reduced the time and effort needed to conquer Finland, Sweden, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey to a fraction of the time it takes to do without that mobility. Being able to land very close to their victory points is a huge advantage in low infrastructure areas, and during winter. ))

 

[Belgiumruler]

Comrades, modernization of the navy is waste of resources and manpower, we have reports from our friends from Germany(our agents) that this country is preparing themselves for land war, they're investing in modern tanks, fast vehicles and foot units, we can't afford failures with Germans like in the past, our army must be strong. Also, if we need more informations from first hand, our Commissar for Education, Sergei Petrovich Soldatov, can assign me and few others spies to Germany, for better intel.

- Comrade Dmitri Dmitriyevich Koychev; Unofficial agent of NKVD (currently in Poland)

((of course it's just a Roleplay, but if Novatheorem would write something about assigning me to Germany, I will be present such informations as my own, not my "friends"))

not true, without the navy we will lose every land war. If 20-30 IC and 2-3 LS are be spended on the navy we have fast a small navy of Submarines and later Cruisers without crippling the Army and Airf Force to much.

V.G. Zaitsev

 

[red_KLG]

not true, without the navy we will lose every land war. If 20-30 IC and 2-3 LS are be spended on the navy we have fast a small navy of Submarines and later Cruisers without crippling the Army and Airf Force to much.

V.G. Zaitsev

Against the carriers of the Americans and Japanese and the British and Japanese steel fortresses our light cruisers will be the laughing stock. Our victory will be secured by the brave souls of our infantrymen and the steel cannons of our heavy tanks.

Naval blockades and submarine war is a futile exercise by those who know they have no chance to win a war in the land. Let the British, French and Japanese have all their shiny toys. In the end all that matters is the the strength of our soldiers and our industry.

A.Y.

 

[Belgiumruler]

Against the carriers of the Americans and Japanese and the British and Japanese steel fortresses our light cruisers will be the laughing stock. Our victory will be secured by the brave souls of our infantrymen and the steel cannons of our heavy tanks.

Naval blockades and submarine war is a futile exercise by those who know they have no chance to win a war in the land. Let the British, French and Japanese have all their shiny toys. In the end all that matters is the the strength of our soldiers and our industry.

A.Y.

Light Cruiser in combination with Naval Bombers are a deadly combination.

V.G. Zaitsev

 

[SovietAmerika]

Comrades of all positions,

As People's Commissar for Trade and Industry, I have invaluable expertise on economics. Forming too large of a Navy will cripple the Soviet bulwark, and would bring more harm than good. Instead, we should focus on mechanized units and aeroplane forces. Russia's strength has always been, and will continue to be, land and air units. Afterall, the majority of our enemies exist on a land, not a water, border to us. It simply makes more logistical sense to focus on the Army and Air Force.

- People's Commissar for Trade and Industry, Milena Vladimirovna Kamensky

 

[son of liberty]

Consolidation of Fronts Plan
1.Operation Bagration
2.Operation August Storm
3.Annexing Finland
4.Puppeting Romania
5.Puppeting Hungary
6.Annexing Poland
7 Puppeting Sweden
8. Yugoslavia in Comitern
9. Greece in Comitern
10. Annexation of Baltic States.
11. Korea in Comitern
12. East Germany in Comitern
13. Communist Control of Turkey
14. Strait Control
15. Communist Control of...Mexico!!

Comrades. Though I oppose this plan due to the Mexican component, I have had my analysts study it. Our studies show that if we are willing to invest serious NKVD resources in Mexico we should be able to institute a friendly government somewhere between 1940 and 1941. Again, I do not support Mexico as a war goal, but the NKVD with the assistance of the Foreign Affairs Ministry can accomplish this mission if we receive the support to do so.

 

[son of liberty]

Comrades of all positions,

As People's Commissar for Trade and Industry, I have invaluable expertise on economics. Forming too large of a Navy will cripple the Soviet bulwark, and would bring more harm than good. Instead, we should focus on mechanized units and aeroplane forces. Russia's strength has always been, and will continue to be, land and air units. Afterall, the majority of our enemies exist on a land, not a water, border to us. It simply makes more logistical sense to focus on the Army and Air Force.

- People's Commissar for Trade and Industry, Milena Vladimirovna Kamensky

Again, I agree with you and the others who think like this. I only suggest keeping 5-7 current combat vessels, and adding 2-5 transport vessels to increase the capability of the Red Army. This will not be a major expenditure in materials or Leadership, but the dividends are potentially huge.

 

[son of liberty]

Light Cruiser in combination with Naval Bombers are a deadly combination.

V.G. Zaitsev

Comrade, the time for a major naval expansion is after the defeat of Germany and possibly China.

 

[SovietAmerika]

Again, I agree with you and the others who think like this. I only suggest keeping 5-7 current combat vessels, and adding 2-5 transport vessels to increase the capability of the Red Army. This will not be a major expenditure in materials or Leadership, but the dividends are potentially huge.

Comrade, perhaps we should wait until after the Nazi war machine is defeated to begin any sort of semi-substantial expansion to the Navy, as suggested? Let's solve one thing at a time.

- Comrade Milena Vladimirovna

 

[Plutonium95]

Again, I agree with you and the others who think like this. I only suggest keeping 5-7 current combat vessels, and adding 2-5 transport vessels to increase the capability of the Red Army. This will not be a major expenditure in materials or Leadership, but the dividends are potentially huge.

Comrade Yagoda,
Being able to move a full corps to key positions seems to be a worthwhile endeavor. And you are right that we will need to keeps some ships on to protect the transports. This plan has my support Comrade.

-People's Commissar for Communication Viktor Ivanovich Glazkov

 

[Belgiumruler]

Dear Comrades,

Here is my final proposal for the Navy:
- Before the German War Machine is defeated, we will spent 8 of our IC on the Navy, for the production of Submarines. As well 1 LS for research.
- The Outdated ships will be Deleted on the moment the Our forces reach the Oder.
- All ships are transferred to the west, except our Submarines, they will form the Paficic Fleet.
- A new plan will be Created on the moment Germany is defeated.
Pleas let me know if you accept with this.

V.G. Zaitsev

 

[red_KLG]

Comrade, perhaps we should wait until after the Nazi war machine is defeated to begin any sort of semi-substantial expansion to the Navy, as suggested? Let's solve one thing at a time.

- Comrade Milena Vladimirovna

Comrade Vladimirovna, expanding our transport capacity is hardly a "semi-substantial expansion". Getting some new transports and grouping them with our relic fleet in the Baltic would serve us well for limited operations. After all, we would not want to get involved in landlock combats in the Arctic, specially in Sweden.

A.Y.

 

[Vrael_1492]

Comrade Vladimirovna, expanding our transport capacity is hardly a "semi-substantial expansion". Getting some new transports and grouping them with our relic fleet in the Baltic would serve us well for limited operations. After all, we would not want to get involved in landlock combats in the Arctic, specially in Sweden.

A.Y.

I agree. Our fleet is only capable of small-scale operations against f.ex. Sweden, Finland, Turkey. This will speed up the process of liberating these countries, by helping capture vital coastal provinces. Istanbul, Stockholm, Helsinki comes to mind. However, after these hostilities we do not really have a use for our navy, and if we are to build a modern fleet, we must research new technologies as the current are ancient.

V. M. Sakharov

 

[Avindian]

So I'm a dolt. Until we get the victory conditions set up, I can't CGM the changes to the beginning forces and the IC queue.

By sometime tomorrow, could somebody compile the most popular plans into a single post? It will facilitate voting.

Oh, and I've had interest from another player, so our little family keeps on growing.

 

[son of liberty]

By sometime tomorrow, could somebody compile the most popular plans into a single post? It will facilitate voting.

I already did that Here

((Here they are again:

Comrade General Secretary, these two seem to be the two main plans vying for approval. Most of the Politburo currently seems to support the
"Sphere of Influence Plan".

Sphere of Influence Plan
1. Secure control of the Bosphorus Strait
2. Install a puppet regime in (Eastern) Germany
3. Annex Poland
4. Annex the Baltic States
5. Complete "Operation August Storm" (China) -- Puppet China
- 6. Manchukuo Give to China
- 7. Install a puppet regime in Korea
8. Install a puppet regime in Sweden
9. Install a puppet regime in Czechoslovakia
10. Install a puppet regime in Yugoslavia
11. Install a puppet regime in Romania
12. Install a puppet regime in Persia
13. Install a puppet regime in Greece
14. Annex Finland
15. Support a left-wing regime in Spain

Consolidation of Fronts Plan
1.Operation Bagration
2.Operation August Storm
3.Annexing Finland
4.Puppeting Romania
5.Puppeting Hungary
6.Annexing Poland
7 Puppeting Sweden
8. Yugoslavia in Comitern
9. Greece in Comitern
10. Annexation of Baltic States.
11. Korea in Comitern
12. East Germany in Comitern
13. Communist Control of Turkey
14. Strait Control
15. Communist Control of...Mexico!! ))

((Though Mexico is ultimately doable, it is a huge waste of LS imo.))

 

[Davout]

Dear Comrades

So we are not crying over spilt milk, I would point out the order made by Comrade Marshal Tukhachevsky in 1935 ((see Prologue)) to scrap the battleships and other existing capital ships. Unless my men are totally inept, that job was done last year. Now in 1936, we must plan for the future.

I should add that given the narrow sea areas that we are talking about, an air group of Naval Bombers and a fast moving task force of light ships and transports will serve just as well as aircraft carriers, battleships and heavy cruisers. We should not emulate the foolish Italians, but should leave such toys until we have the time and the opportunity to play with the bigger navies in the Atlantic and Pacific.

And I have not forgotten Kronstadt.

Your fraternally,

NF Vatutin (Col)
NK Stavka