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Well, I am not sure if it can be counted as "not an exploit".
As for not being in the rules, it deppends how you read them. It can fall under the last sentence of the rules (as can everything else
).
Anyway, if everyone can use it, than everyone should know how to use it prperly so look in the Naval FAQ for detailes, and a short story is:
...Fleets with naval tech 41 and higher or fleets of size 101 or larger or do not suffer naval supply attrition; they are still subject to naval movement attrition.
...Ships and troops on-board are not affected by movement attrition if led by an explorer.
As for not being in the rules, it deppends how you read them. It can fall under the last sentence of the rules (as can everything else
).Anyway, if everyone can use it, than everyone should know how to use it prperly
so look in the Naval FAQ for detailes, and a short story is:...Fleets with naval tech 41 and higher or fleets of size 101 or larger or do not suffer naval supply attrition; they are still subject to naval movement attrition.
...Ships and troops on-board are not affected by movement attrition if led by an explorer.
Barnius said:
No, I wouldn't expect that from a GM.
mayby not but i do expect it from daniel
anyway the exploit is that if you build 101transports or something and give it a explorer it won't have any atrition ever aslong as the explorer lives, not sure if it works with 100+galleys tho
admiral drake said:mayby not but i do expect it from daniel
anyway the exploit is that if you build 101transports or something and give it a explorer it won't have any atrition ever aslong as the explorer lives, not sure if it works with 100+galleys tho
I just hope Daniel will be as thorough in naval battles as well: careful not to move fleets in the end of the month, i.e. plan battle strategy according to that
Me and Daniel wrapped this up to make things abit clearer .
The GMs want to make some things clear to the players. There must exist no ignorance of these aspects.
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Our rules can be found in post 2. All players in the game, GMs and non-GM must have read these rules, made sure they understand them, must accept them, and must play according to them.
As this is important we will now repeat this message:
“Our rules can be found in post 2. All players in the game, GMs and non-GM must have read these rules, made sure they understand them, must accept them, and must play according to them.”
In this rules post there comes first a set of “basic” rules, then a set of detailed rules. All rules are important but some rules are more important than other and these are the basic rules. Basic rule umber 4 says:
4. Do whatever you want as long as it is not forbidden
Please note that this rule is contrary to what is the norm in most other games where instead the normal equivalent (and often partly implicit) rule is “the GM is your God and he may at anytime claim that anything you do is forbidden”. Thus this game ensures a much higher degree of “safety of rights” than do normal games. It is similar to the life as a normal citizen in e.g. a Nordic country (were we come from) compared to that in e.g. most countries below the equator. You are much more able to predict how the officials (say a police or a customs officer etc) of your life will behave if you live in a land here in the North than in fact most other nations in the world. It is a matter of quality of life and likewise this policy of the GMs in this game ensures a higher quality of gaming time for you, than does the rules in other games.
Q1 are there any limit to this rule?
Response: Yes, the limit is just as it says, i.e. all such rules that forbid something.
Q2: are any of these forbidding rules unclear, thus making this rule 4 also becoming unclear?
Response: In theory yes, but very rarely in practice. And the basis for this is that while many rules may have unclear borders almost all players are honorable and try to stay clear from the border cases. Thus violations normally occur only as mistakes, i.e. the player did not know or did not remember something was forbidden. An example can be that it is possible to choose a “almost” small sized fleet and make an attack on an enemy fleet and thus it may be a question of interpretation of whether rule 14a) has been violated or not. Thus in our experience that has never occurred. No player has ever dared to put his own reputation at stake by choosing such a size. Likewise the rule of releasing vassals during a war has not been violated intentionally in our experience. The one time we know it was violated and informed the perpetrator he immediately recognized his mistake and we all quickly sorted out how to solve it.
Q3 Does this mean that “exploits” are generally allowed?
Response: yes of course. As long as the exploit in question is not listed in the rule as forbidden it is allowed. To use an exploit that is not forbidden to your advantage is a sign of skill and/or smartness, not of being playing “unethical” or something similar. In fact “unethical actions” are non-existent in our game, because only allowed and not allowed actions exist. This is a rather important distinction and make sure you have understood it.
Q4: How does detailed rule number 8 cooperate with basic rule 4?
Response: The detailed rule 8 says ”When unpredicted situations occur during the game the GM may, after consulting the players, issue additional ad hoc rules to deal with the situation. A good example is if a human nation is AIed, the GM may then state whether this nation is on-limits or off-limits. The GM may however never punish a nation for actions already taken that break this new rule.” This rule is the one vague rule in the rules complex. It has been intended to be of use very rarely. We believe our current rules cover all possibilities but experience tells us that new things may still pop up. In another game half a year ago a player e.g. used a not well-known bug whereby you can get tens of thousands of ducats from a AI nation although that nation does not own that much money. In such a case we would immediately issue a new rule. In fact: we already have that rule, it is rule 14 i) so this cannot happen in our game.
Q5: this example of money-in-peace bug almost touches the last line in the rule’s post, does it not?
Response: that line says “And of course not to make obvious cheats like editing the save (unless the GM publicly said so)”. Some would surely consider such an action as the money-in-peace as cheating. However we would not. As long as you play the game as it is you can never be considered to have cheated, that is our rule. If you take advantage of a bug then you are playing intelligently, nothing more. But when we detect what you do and we do not like it we may well make sure you cannot repeat this action again. We do this by issuing a new rule covering this case and we do it by the right rule 8 gives us.
Q6: I can not find any hole in this rule complex, it almost resembles a miracle, is this true… a miracle?
Response: you flatter us J. Unfortunately we are, as we have said, not your Gods, only your servants. And as such, i.e. human beings, we are not infallible. In contrast to other GMs (those that portray themselves as your Gods) we humbly accept our human nature and that we have a deficiency of our mental capabilities, namely that we are not perfect. ;-)
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The time to try and change the rules was before we started the game, not after it has started although you can of course still make suggestions of changes should something occur that you did not understood could happen.
. The GMs want to make some things clear to the players. There must exist no ignorance of these aspects.
------
Our rules can be found in post 2. All players in the game, GMs and non-GM must have read these rules, made sure they understand them, must accept them, and must play according to them.
As this is important we will now repeat this message:
“Our rules can be found in post 2. All players in the game, GMs and non-GM must have read these rules, made sure they understand them, must accept them, and must play according to them.”
In this rules post there comes first a set of “basic” rules, then a set of detailed rules. All rules are important but some rules are more important than other and these are the basic rules. Basic rule umber 4 says:
4. Do whatever you want as long as it is not forbidden
Please note that this rule is contrary to what is the norm in most other games where instead the normal equivalent (and often partly implicit) rule is “the GM is your God and he may at anytime claim that anything you do is forbidden”. Thus this game ensures a much higher degree of “safety of rights” than do normal games. It is similar to the life as a normal citizen in e.g. a Nordic country (were we come from) compared to that in e.g. most countries below the equator. You are much more able to predict how the officials (say a police or a customs officer etc) of your life will behave if you live in a land here in the North than in fact most other nations in the world. It is a matter of quality of life and likewise this policy of the GMs in this game ensures a higher quality of gaming time for you, than does the rules in other games.
Q1 are there any limit to this rule?
Response: Yes, the limit is just as it says, i.e. all such rules that forbid something.
Q2: are any of these forbidding rules unclear, thus making this rule 4 also becoming unclear?
Response: In theory yes, but very rarely in practice. And the basis for this is that while many rules may have unclear borders almost all players are honorable and try to stay clear from the border cases. Thus violations normally occur only as mistakes, i.e. the player did not know or did not remember something was forbidden. An example can be that it is possible to choose a “almost” small sized fleet and make an attack on an enemy fleet and thus it may be a question of interpretation of whether rule 14a) has been violated or not. Thus in our experience that has never occurred. No player has ever dared to put his own reputation at stake by choosing such a size. Likewise the rule of releasing vassals during a war has not been violated intentionally in our experience. The one time we know it was violated and informed the perpetrator he immediately recognized his mistake and we all quickly sorted out how to solve it.
Q3 Does this mean that “exploits” are generally allowed?
Response: yes of course. As long as the exploit in question is not listed in the rule as forbidden it is allowed. To use an exploit that is not forbidden to your advantage is a sign of skill and/or smartness, not of being playing “unethical” or something similar. In fact “unethical actions” are non-existent in our game, because only allowed and not allowed actions exist. This is a rather important distinction and make sure you have understood it.
Q4: How does detailed rule number 8 cooperate with basic rule 4?
Response: The detailed rule 8 says ”When unpredicted situations occur during the game the GM may, after consulting the players, issue additional ad hoc rules to deal with the situation. A good example is if a human nation is AIed, the GM may then state whether this nation is on-limits or off-limits. The GM may however never punish a nation for actions already taken that break this new rule.” This rule is the one vague rule in the rules complex. It has been intended to be of use very rarely. We believe our current rules cover all possibilities but experience tells us that new things may still pop up. In another game half a year ago a player e.g. used a not well-known bug whereby you can get tens of thousands of ducats from a AI nation although that nation does not own that much money. In such a case we would immediately issue a new rule. In fact: we already have that rule, it is rule 14 i) so this cannot happen in our game.
Q5: this example of money-in-peace bug almost touches the last line in the rule’s post, does it not?
Response: that line says “And of course not to make obvious cheats like editing the save (unless the GM publicly said so)”. Some would surely consider such an action as the money-in-peace as cheating. However we would not. As long as you play the game as it is you can never be considered to have cheated, that is our rule. If you take advantage of a bug then you are playing intelligently, nothing more. But when we detect what you do and we do not like it we may well make sure you cannot repeat this action again. We do this by issuing a new rule covering this case and we do it by the right rule 8 gives us.
Q6: I can not find any hole in this rule complex, it almost resembles a miracle, is this true… a miracle?
Response: you flatter us J. Unfortunately we are, as we have said, not your Gods, only your servants. And as such, i.e. human beings, we are not infallible. In contrast to other GMs (those that portray themselves as your Gods) we humbly accept our human nature and that we have a deficiency of our mental capabilities, namely that we are not perfect. ;-)
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The time to try and change the rules was before we started the game, not after it has started although you can of course still make suggestions of changes should something occur that you did not understood could happen.
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Well, I come from a region where people always looked how to avoid state taxes and other obligations issued by the government. Naturally, always taking care not to break laws and regulations. And naturally, always pointing out loopholes in laws to all others, so as much people as possible could take advantage of it.
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it would be better to not alow it anyway
1 those that use it get a unfair advantage ofwhat is suposed to be slow colonization/exploration
2 if everybody uses it whats the point of only using 1 explorer a session ?
1 those that use it get a unfair advantage ofwhat is suposed to be slow colonization/exploration
2 if everybody uses it whats the point of only using 1 explorer a session ?
btw when asking for a explorer/conq do we ask
4generals 1conq or
3generals 1conq ?
4generals 1conq or
3generals 1conq ?
u can have 4 random leaders total. but only one explorer OR conquistador. meaning.
3 generals and 1 conq
or 2 generals 1 admiral and 1 explorer.
etc......
ok to explain better.
You can choose any combination of leaders you want with the exception of max 1 explorer or conq, but not both. I quote from post 3 "Each session every player receives four leaders of his own choice (admirals or generals). From sessions starting in the year 1500 or later you can ask for either a conquistador or an explorer (but not both and not two of one sort, Now tell us exactly what in this rule is unclear?
3 generals and 1 conq
or 2 generals 1 admiral and 1 explorer.
etc......
ok to explain better.
You can choose any combination of leaders you want with the exception of max 1 explorer or conq, but not both. I quote from post 3 "Each session every player receives four leaders of his own choice (admirals or generals). From sessions starting in the year 1500 or later you can ask for either a conquistador or an explorer (but not both and not two of one sort, Now tell us exactly what in this rule is unclear?
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plz post all of this in the AAR thread. I wont look after edits or generals in here when i make my list.
admiral drake said:
"no one has gotten any "unfair" advantage. If you do not understand this we are sorry to say that you do not fit in this game. You are hereby instructed to read the rules once again and make sure you understand and accept them.
and this goes to everyone. i've had questions from people in this game that is explained in details in the rules. If u don't understand a rule ask me or daniel will try to explain it to u so u can understand it better.
Read the rules. and DON'T POST edits in here.. AAR thread damnit
Because of an unexpected business trip I will have to skip the next session, and most likelly the one after this too.
If a player is found who is willing to play Portugal for next two sessions this would be the best solution.
If a player is found who is willing to play Portugal for next two sessions this would be the best solution.
Barnius said:
Barnius u have to get ur own subs, the GM's are no slaves that will roam the world looking for subs to everyone each session because u are to lazy to find it ur self , as that will take precious free time for us. we are just the same as everyother player on the community and wishes that everyone takes care of them self. We are no slaves for u guys and we are no gods. The GM's are just here to make the edits, make people be on time and see to it that no rules are broken.
So please Barnius ask around for subs your self as it's not anyone else duty to provide it for u. If u can't find someone u might be ghosted or in worst case AI'ed. That would be disastrous especially next session.
I don't like that people expect others to do their dirty work because u are lazy etc. WE might get u a sub but it wont be any priority for us as our priorities as GM falls under other sections and we will deal with that first.
I hope that the other players in this game will understand this and do some effort to provide for them self. as it's ur nation that u need subs for.
The exact inflation penalty for having gold mines was not decided in the rules (see old rule below). There was only a suggestion of 0.5% per 100d. We forgot to actually make a decision. But now we have made one and the decision is to set it to 0.3% per 100d in annual gold income. (see new rule below)
the orignal rule
Gold inflation. After a session ending after 1570 and 1650, inflation from gold will be edited in. The inflation assessed will be based upon the income from the gold provinces, not the number of provincess. In the edit request in the AAR the players will, after these sessions, report their annual income from gold providing you control these mines a full year. Then you get X% inflation for each Yd income (e.g. 0.5% for each 100d). If you fail to write this number in the edit request you will be assessed a high value, e.g. 1% for each province. Observe: this has nothing to do with the geographic location of the mine.
is change to
Gold inflation. After a session ending after 1570 and 1650, inflation from gold will be edited in. The inflation assessed will be based upon the income from the gold provinces, not the number of provincess. In the edit request in the AAR the players will, after these sessions, report their annual income from gold providing you control these mines a full year. The you'll get 0.3% for each 100d of your annual gold income. If you fail to write this number in the edit request you will instead get 1% for each 100d of your annual gold income.
the orignal rule
Gold inflation. After a session ending after 1570 and 1650, inflation from gold will be edited in. The inflation assessed will be based upon the income from the gold provinces, not the number of provincess. In the edit request in the AAR the players will, after these sessions, report their annual income from gold providing you control these mines a full year. Then you get X% inflation for each Yd income (e.g. 0.5% for each 100d). If you fail to write this number in the edit request you will be assessed a high value, e.g. 1% for each province. Observe: this has nothing to do with the geographic location of the mine.
is change to
Gold inflation. After a session ending after 1570 and 1650, inflation from gold will be edited in. The inflation assessed will be based upon the income from the gold provinces, not the number of provincess. In the edit request in the AAR the players will, after these sessions, report their annual income from gold providing you control these mines a full year. The you'll get 0.3% for each 100d of your annual gold income. If you fail to write this number in the edit request you will instead get 1% for each 100d of your annual gold income.
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No need for panic or selfpity Lyko , naturally everyone should try getting a sub for his country.
Chad (ICQ=2538022), an EU2 veteran, was so kind to agree to lead Portugal the next session and I am very grateful for that.
He is avare of specialities of this campaign as well as of the position of Portugal and most important foreign relations.
Good luch to you all
, naturally everyone should try getting a sub for his country.Chad (ICQ=2538022), an EU2 veteran, was so kind to agree to lead Portugal the next session and I am very grateful for that.
He is avare of specialities of this campaign as well as of the position of Portugal and most important foreign relations.
Good luch to you all
Indeed, it would be my pleasure to fill in for my friend Barnius. I've not played Eu2 in quite a while, so it'll be even more enjoyable as absence has made the game grow fonder.
That's good to hear barnius.
and John we start at 19:15 it would be good if u show up 5-10 min earlier so we get a better start. and i hope that barnius have made it clear that spain is ur best friend
and John we start at 19:15 it would be good if u show up 5-10 min earlier so we get a better start. and i hope that barnius have made it clear that spain is ur best friend
-Lyko- said:i hope that barnius have made it clear that spain is ur best friend
Lyko starts with his evil propaganda...
no evil propaganda just some clear facts as me and barnius are really good friendsBurningEGO said:Lyko starts with his evil propaganda...