Tsunami II - 19th & 20th July.

[Damocles]

How utterly asinine.

First Mowers says I can play Muscowy, then there is a dispute when someone else clicks on it first. I ask Mowers politely to settle it, he does nothing. Then Mulliman (the nominal Muscowy perm arrives grossly late) and the problem is solved. I get shuffled to England.

Secondly Mowers offers Austria to me, then when Redphoenix clicks it before I do, does nothing but say 'quickly quickly quickly' as I ask him to settle the dispute. So I click on Saxony, since he is saying it will crash otherwise, expecting the problem to be then resolved, yet instead he launches.

Once we're in game, I talk to Mowers, and he apologizes at length after an admittedly ferocious verbal lashing, saying I was supposed to be Austria, and didn't he tell Redphoenix to unclick Austria? And then I can be what I want. Yet I can't be Sweden (Because he dosen't want a veteran in such a powerful country, yet he offered Austria...more BS). I play with Saxony, fine, tho it was a country I didn't want, and get in a war against Austria with France.

Third rehost comes around, and I am then allowed to take Muscowy after Mulliman has to leave. So for the first time, I'll actually be playing a nation I feel like playing. We have to rehost again since Yonash is buggering it up. Mowers then starts complaing over how he absolutely will not take Saxony no matter what, "Mark my words...etc etc". I suggest that he takes Portugal, which he has been the last two hosts and out of the blue, he bans me and starts the game.

I've been playing MGC, Tsunami with Mowers for two years+. I have never seen such a shoddy, downright rude display ever. I expect a pretty damn good explantion as well. An apology won't cut it. He already apologized for ignoring and being rude in the heat of the moment, but there is nothing that can explain that. Banning me, just because he didn't want to play Saxony? How idiotic is that?

This is the same Mowers that banned Archduke for discussing diplomacy via ICQ.

The entire affair was an ugly, slipshod production, and I would encourage everyone who was displeased with the night's events to boycott the farce that is Tsunami 2.

I'm still disgusted, confused and hurt...(Afterall, I've known Mowers for quite some time) over the display he put on tonight. Like a Jekyll and Hyde act. Booting me out of the lobby so that he didn't have to play Saxony...The country he stuck me with accidentally in the first place after making us wait three hours while painstakining Moweresque edits were carried out...

Is anyone willing to explain this erratic behavior?

Frankly, I'm not even terribly angry. I feel sick though, and a bit dismayed. You think you know someone, talk with them, play many games with them...Then out of the blue, you get booted for no reason at all so that he can play a different nation...I still don't understand why he didn't just play Portugal.

In any case. Even if I wasn't treated the way I was...On one hand apologizing and promising, then profoundly changed in the lobby...The whole game was just run in such a...Mindblowingly inefficient manner, I wouldn't want anything more to do with it or him for a very long time. Normally, I wouldn't bother making a post of this. But I am genuinely hurt and confused, and I do want a response. I'd like to know if there is a reason for this seeming batshit act.

You've lost yourself a friend, Mowers.

 

[TheArchduke]

Originally posted by Damocles

This is the same Mowers that banned Archduke for discussing diplomacy via ICQ.

Hmm have I missed something here?

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by TheArchduke
Hmm have I missed something here?

You didn't get the memo? Tonight, Mowers said you weren't playing in Tsunami anymore because you disobeyed his rule about not conducting diplomacy before games...Unbelievable, I know.

 

[Damocles]

A reason I've been given is that I was 'banned' because I wouldn't see the war with Saxony through.


A) I was only Saxony by mistake. I was waiting for Mowers to settle the dispute between me and Red over Austria, when he hyperactively launched.

B) In game, Mowers apologized to me, and said I could take another country.

C) Why is it my fault that Saxony is involved in a war? It was part of the French alliance, since Austria and Bohemia were going to dow it anyways. I used Saxony more effectively then any AI could and helped Wyvern a great deal.

D) It was now time for me to move on and the war was nearing closure anyways, and Mowers gave me no indication whatsoever that it was play Saxony or be banned. He just banned me and launched. After apologizing earlier and saying I could be someone else! I didn't see Redphoenix get banned after switching to Austria during the Genoa-Naples war. He sure as hell didn't care when I got forced into Saxony while England was still at war. Even though I did not want Saxony, and only took it to prevent a crash while waiting for him to mediate a dispute. Mulliman isn't banned for leaving to go eat while Muscowy was in a war with Kazan.

E) Again...How could I have been under any compunction to play a minor through that I wasn't supposed to be in the first place? I waited until rehost didn't I? I didn't drop out after the session started ala Yonash.

Anyway it's sliced. Its still bs. In the end, I'm through with you Mowers...and this pathetic excuse for a EUII experience that is Tsunami...Which has easily been the most depressing, and unpleasant eight hours of EU multiplayer I've ever witnessed. I wouldn't even expend this much effort if I was angry. But I'm hurt because of the bullshit I had to take from someone who for two years, I've imagined to be a friend. How do you apologize to someone, say they can have another nation , then ban them without a word out of the blue for such a transparent reason?

 

[unmerged(10915)]

Ah, feck i left Muscowy in a terrible state with 2 loans, a war with Ryazan and a terrible army. This time my connection crashed out again (after i got back from dinner). Dont know if you are still playing, but i cant play right now anyway, as i have to go.

*Shudders from the thought of fighting in GH provinces. The rivers, the Rivers!*

And also i would like to apologise to Damo if i caused any bad feelings between him and Mowers for arriving a bit late during a rehost. That should be entirely my blame.

 

[Damocles]

No one has done anything. Not Mulliman. Not Dawkins, not Redphenix. They were under the same misconceptions. Afterall, it was just a simple dispute that happens in every game that any GM can settle with a single sentence. Case closed. Only Mowers is at fault.

For failing to act as a GM to mediate a dispute after making opposing promises to different people, then absuing and shuffling things around in a shoddy hyperactive manner, whch made me think KING KHAN had taken Mowers name as he threatened. Most importantly, he completely ignored the havoc that his conflicting promises wrecked.

Is it so difficult to ask for a simple dispute to be settled...And instead of settling it by saying "Red, your Austria, sorry Damo. Or Red, I promised the slot to Damo, sorry." To just say 'quickly quickly quickly quickly' and then launch leaving the matter unsettled.

Then to make more apologies and promises, and then act out again in a batshit manner.

Even if this hadn't happened, I would've been through with Tsuanmi. But the way its gone, I'm through with Mowers too.

 

[Damocles]

To be frank. I don't really give a shit about the countries. I was only planning to play a couple sessions anyways.

What I didn't like was being jerked around. Was being told I was going to take over a slot, and then ignoring the dispute while in the lobby, and then launching the game immediately without solving anything, and then apologizing, only to do the same thing again...Then to pull such a wierd ass stunt as he did the third time.

Thats what bothered me. It bothered me most because it was Mowers. Someone whom I used to regard with admiration. But to see him act in such a hairbrained, unprofessional, callous and just downright...*stupid* manner. It just confuses and sickens me.

Anyone who knows me, knows that what happens in game, dosen't affect how I view you as a person.

But when I think someone has either jerked me around or been extremely false with me outside the game, that gets my hackles up.

 

[Damocles]

I'm going to sleep now. I REALLY HOPE there is some brilliant explanation or misunderstanding behind all of this (Come on Peter), because I've been a fan of Mowers for two years. It can be a sickening process to be brutally disalussioned in the space of a single night. I desperately hope that somehow, I'm on a acid trip without knowing, and I have it all wrong. I'm used to being wrong, I'm okay with it. I'm not okay with being abused.

 

[unmerged(7034)]

Originally posted by Damocles
I'll be playing in this session of Tsunami. I might not make the next, and I certainly couldn't make the first, but I intend to wreck some serious havoc in this one.

Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Once more thanks to everyone for the game. And especially to Mowers.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Damocles
I'm going to sleep now. I REALLY HOPE there is some brilliant explanation or misunderstanding behind all of this (Come on Peter)

Well... I am hardly the one to come up with a brilliant explanation, but if I might venture a guess, I would say it had something to do with "seing a war through" as Saxony, rather than abandoning it the moment you could.

As you yourself so eloquently stated, you "Did ten times more with Saxony than anyone else could have done". This included holding provinces from Austria in the French+Saxonian war against Austria while, at the same time having nearly all your five home provinces controlled by the enemy, two or three loans on the way to a bankruptcy, and printing money like mad. Given your brilliance at the game as compared to the rest of us, it would be grossly unfair to force a lesser intellect to deal with the interesting, nay might I say, even challenging, situation you had created, merely because you prefer playing a major. As such, you were the natural player for Saxony at the time (until the end of the war), which Mowers stated several times. He also stated, at the same time, that he had banned other players (notably Yonosh) for not seing wars through.

Thus Mowers was forced to play Saxony, lest it crumble completely, and like the lesser light he is, he only managed to make peace with his neighbours and, through tireless diplomacy, scrape enough money together to pay off the loans.

No, sorry. I cannot find a brilliant explanation. All I can offer is this boring recounting of events, which is what I have now done.

EDIT: And the moral is this: If you send the country you control into war, you should expect to be the one who control it after rehosting, if the war is still ongoing.

 

[Mowers]

yep, good session.

Still need to fix that loans bug though

But we hit 1494 nicely.

thanks everyone.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Originally posted by Mowers
yep, good session.

Still need to fix that loans bug though

But we hit 1494 nicely.

thanks everyone.

loans bug? ) you mean our brandenburg? hehe.

Aye good session all, I enjoyed playing, and even working my butt off to edit spain, france and austria properly.

I hope I can make it next weekend to play, if not, may the winds carry the game forward with as well as they have thus far, has been a great and certainly challenging thing to play the 1419 scenario. And I look forward to improving perhaps the intial setup of 1419 and playing it again in a big game. It worked greatly for this game.

 

[Swuul]

Well, for what is worth (and what I saw) I do think Damo is exaggerating a bit (as I have found out to be his style . I hope Damo won't hate me for the following words, it is after all just a game, and this is how I remember seeing the situation.

When I joined the game (after the very long editing done by Red and PE), Damo did say he'd want to play Sweden or Austria. As far as I saw about the Austria issue, Mowers *never* said Damo would be Austria, the only comment I remember seeing (excuse me if old age is reason for a failing memory) was: "Damo would be a good Austria or England." After that I asked if I can be Sweden, and Mowers said "cc Jarkko", which was the only confirmation I saw by Mowers at that rehost. After Red had fixed the save I for one thought it would be more than decent if he got the first pick.

But most of all, *Mowers is the GM* . He told several times a country should not be abandoned when at war. Damo ignored all that. Mowers started a countdown *three* times, Damo did not even comment. I for one thought it was rather rude behaviour from Damo's side, even though I *do* understand he was frustrated heavily. In a situation where the GM and a player disagree the GM is *always* right, even when I/you/one is 100% sure he is wrong. But that's the way games with GM's are, always . Otherwise it will just end in bad feelings and foul words

Thank's Mowers for a good but tough job done. Thank's to Red for fixing the file and to Peter too

Next weekend I might miss the Saturday or Sunday session, though with luck I might be there

 

[ForzaA]

i hope the AI did not screw up Britanny too badly (esp. concerning deal with France in exchange for certain services, and i think the marriage will have occured too )

 

[Dawkins]

Having tried to organise games on a much smaller scale than Tsunami, I have to say Mowers would need to kill my mother - nay my whole family - before he lost my respect

Quite frankly, Mowers has the right to do whatever he wants, and if people don't like it they should just shut up and leave quietly via the back door.

That rant by Damo is bang out of order, no matter how badly Mowers treated him. And for the record I didn't see any bad treatment whatsoever - merely no preferential treatment.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Dawkins
Having tried to organise games on a much smaller scale than Tsunami, I have to say Mowers would need to kill my mother - nay my whole family - before he lost my respect

Quite frankly, Mowers has the right to do whatever he wants, and if people don't like it they should just shut up and leave quietly via the back door.

Now Now, there is a limit . Still I hope Damo and Mowers can talk privately and resolve their difference.

Heck I didn't agree with what was done to France/Burgundy - suddenly finding an uber Austria on my doorstep was not pleasent, but I kept my discussions to private chats with Mowers .

 

[artemis667]

Originally posted by Wyvern
Now Now, there is a limit . Still I hope Damo and Mowers can talk privately and resolve their difference.

Heck I didn't agree with what was done to France/Burgundy - suddenly finding an uber Austria on my doorstep was not pleasent, but I kept my discussions to private chats with Mowers .

Uber Austria?

What the hell happened out there?

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Wyvern
Heck I didn't agree with what was done to France/Burgundy - suddenly finding an uber Austria on my doorstep was not pleasent, but I kept my discussions to private chats with Mowers .

Well, RedPhoenix' solution was just about the same as the one I was implementing, and fit what I had heard of the 3 Burgundian options - so there

Now if I ever get my hands on 7ThSiGn, the bugger who thought that using 5,000 ducats from lag-loans to build two manufactories and hire 130K+ mercenaries to attack his neighbours was, I quote: "funny", since, after all "It is just a game", then blood will flow and there will be no rest for the wicked, save that of the grave.

I do not know what is most pathetic, honestly. The fact that he did not communicate for some ten minutes, but just fought on ignoring everybody else and our attempts to contact him, or that he fought so incompetently that he was losing badly to the Teutonic Order's 40K armies and the German Death Squad by the time he began communicating.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by artemis667
Uber Austria?

What the hell happened out there?

 

[TheArchduke]

What happened to OE? Has Peter again crushed another loan-taking polish magnate? Why is Burgundy so nicely divided? Is England viable?

All things the audience wants to know especially me.