Trying to improve my blobbing game

[Jonathan Palfrey]

I disagree. If you play your cards right you can get to that point in about a hundred years.

Well, if you can start in, say, Ireland in 1066, and become stronger than a combination of any two or three opponents within a hundred years, you're a better player than I am, and I'd be interested to hear how you play that hundred years. Because, for me, that's the interesting part of the game.

Advice on how to play the game as an established superpower isn't really very valuable; from then on, you're not in any danger, and you can spend your time chasing the white stag and fathering bastards, if that's what turns you on.

 

[soondragon67]

Well, if you can start in, say, Ireland in 1066, and become stronger than a combination of any two or three opponents within a hundred years, you're a better player than I am, and I'd be interested to hear how you play that hundred years. Because, for me, that's the interesting part of the game.

Advice on how to play the game as an established superpower isn't really very valuable; from then on, you're not in any danger, and you can spend your time chasing the white stag and fathering bastards, if that's what turns you on.

Obviously it depends on where you start. Starting as a small vassal or an Irish lord will take you much longer than starting as a duke or small king. As a small king I'd say you could do it in as little as 75 years. As a duke a bit over 100. As a small vassal or Irish lord I'd say 150-175 would be a good range. The counts especially are hard, since you have to rely on inheriting titles and claims for your player character and fabricating claims, which takes a very long time. Once you get to duke you can start picking up vassal claims to build yourself up till you can take a king title. Then when you get to king the rest of the build up is a breeze.

I do find it strange, however, that you went from everyone but the Kaiser taking the majority of the game to build up, to limiting your scope to the Irish gang. That's a pretty big leap even when accounting for hyperbole.

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

Obviously it depends on where you start. Starting as a small vassal or an Irish lord will take you much longer than starting as a duke or small king. As a small king I'd say you could do it in as little as 75 years. As a duke a bit over 100. As a small vassal or Irish lord I'd say 150-175 would be a good range. The counts especially are hard, since you have to rely on inheriting titles and claims for your player character and fabricating claims, which takes a very long time. Once you get to duke you can start picking up vassal claims to build yourself up till you can take a king title. Then when you get to king the rest of the build up is a breeze.

I think the OP and I would both like to know how you go about your buildup, rather than exactly how long you take to do it.

In my current game, I built up well from duke to emperor, but I have a small custom empire consisting of Brittany, Ireland, and Wales. I seem to have got stuck at that point. I'm still not strong enough to go heretic. It's not worth fabricating claims a county at a time when I have to fight a major war for each county. I've tried looking for claimants, but I never find a claimant with a strong claim who's willing to come to my court. I've been marrying off members of my dynasty diligently, but can never find anyone really useful to pair them off with. Nothing much has been happening in this game for a long time, and I'm bored with it. Surely there must be something I could do that hasn't occurred to me yet.

I've played other games in which I was more successful, acquiring multiple empires, but I suppose I must have been luckier in those games.

I do find it strange, however, that you went from everyone but the Kaiser taking the majority of the game to build up, to limiting your scope to the Irish gang. That's a pretty big leap even when accounting for hyperbole.

There seems to me a big leap from the Holy Roman Emperor to almost anyone else; I gave the Irish just as an example, because I've quite often started there myself.

 

[soondragon67]

I think the OP and I would both like to know how you go about your buildup, rather than exactly how long you take to do it.

In my current game, I built up well from duke to emperor, but I have a small custom empire consisting of Brittany, Ireland, and Wales. I seem to have got stuck at that point. I'm still not strong enough to go heretic. It's not worth fabricating claims a county at a time when I have to fight a major war for each county. I've tried looking for claimants, but I never find a claimant with a strong claim who's willing to come to my court. I've been marrying off members of my dynasty diligently, but can never find anyone really useful to pair them off with. Nothing much has been happening in this game for a long time, and I'm bored with it. Surely there must be something I could do that hasn't occurred to me yet.

How do you go about looking for claimants? I only struggle to find claimants when I'm looking through kingdoms after I've eaten up all but a few of them. I've never had difficulty finding claimants for duchies.

Also I'd suggest fabricating a claim on a weak Muslim nation, and then holy warring from there. Try targeting Muslim nations who can't gather many allies, either due to wars distracting the other Muslim nations or because they're a different branch than their neighboring Muslims.

Another strategy you could use is using your fabricate a claim action on duchies rather than counties. If you put your chancellor in the capital of a duchy(I've never had it work on independent dukes, though) there's a chance that you'll get a claim on that duchy. Ignore the county claims you get until you get the duchy claim, then press it.

Yet another thing to keep in mind is that you don't necessarily need strong claimants. You can always look for duchesses and then you won't need to worry about whether or not the claimants have a strong claim or a weak claim.

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

How do you go about looking for claimants? I only struggle to find claimants when I'm looking through kingdoms after I've eaten up all but a few of them. I've never had difficulty finding claimants for duchies.

Well, I go to the Kingdom of France and click the Claimants button. That shows everyone with claims, and they have a green flag if they're willing to come to my court. I check the ones with green flags and find that they all have weak claims and are therefore useless. Then I do the same with the Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Aquitaine. You're right, it hadn't occurred to me to check claimants for duchies as well. That would take even longer but might produce something. I could start with the duchies I'm most interested in.

Also I'd suggest fabricating a claim on a weak Muslim nation, and then holy warring from there.

Yes, Muslims are relatively easy to pick on, but they're a long way away. By now they've been cleared out of Spain, and western Europe is solidly Catholic. I don't really want the inconvenience of acquiring land that I have to scroll and scroll to see.

Another strategy you could use is using your fabricate a claim action on duchies rather than counties. If you put your chancellor in the capital of a duchy(I've never had it work on independent dukes, though) there's a chance that you'll get a claim on that duchy. Ignore the county claims you get until you get the duchy claim, then press it.

I think that would take a long time, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to try, if I don't need my chancellor for anything else. Thanks; it hadn't really occurred to me to go on trying until I get a duchy claim.

Yet another thing to keep in mind is that you don't necessarily need strong claimants. You can always look for duchesses and then you won't need to worry about whether or not the claimants have a strong claim or a weak claim.

You mean, marry a duchess? Yes, I look out for that possibility, but the available duchesses are few and tend to be in places that aren't much use to me. Also, they're likely to have mediocre abilities, which is a drawback in a wife.

 

[Dragatus]

No, the reason you search for duchesses is not because you would marry them, but because weak claims can be pressed when the claimant is male and the current title holder is female.

For the same reason you can also search for dukes/kings who are underage, have the Incapable trait, or are imprisoned. In all of these cases there will be a regency, which likewise makes it possible to press weak claims. Just note that Incapable and Infirm are two different traits and only Incapable forces a character into a regency.

Finally, you may wish to keep an eye out for adventurers. When they launch their war the title in question will be contested and that again makes it possible to press weak claims. Faction rebellions to put person X on the throne also serve the same function, but are much less common.

 

[BD13]

Well, if you can start in, say, Ireland in 1066, and become stronger than a combination of any two or three opponents within a hundred years, you're a better player than I am, and I'd be interested to hear how you play that hundred years. Because, for me, that's the interesting part of the game.

I am sure this can be done much faster but this is how I went from Duke of Essex to Emperor of Britannia in about 100 years without embracing a heresy.

Disclaimer: I realize this is specific to the British isles but I use the same general strategy whenever I want to blob.

1. Revoked barony of Tottenham for extra troops and income.

2. Made all single county dukes and counts around me a tributary. (Counts of surrey and Sussex and duke of Kent)

3. Made the two county Duke of Norfolk my tributary. At this point with my tributaries I can already take on any of the bigger Dukes on the isle one on one.

4. Pressed dejure claims for Northampton and Bedford. Northampton first because it is owned by the Duke of Mercia. This weakened him against me and his vassals.

5. Concentrated on gathering claims that allowed me to create the kingdom of England. All pressed claims were inside the kingdom of England. I tend to fabricate but inviting people with claims works just as good and is cheaper. It is important to be strategic with claims. I want to be able to create or ursurp duchy titles that will give further dejure claims. Since you need more than 50% of a duchy to create or usurp I target duchies with an odd number of counties.

In my case my next claim was a fabricated claim for the whole duchy of Wessex. To fabricate claims on duchies your chancellor needs to have at least 15 diplomacy.

I always keep an eye out for when truces are expiring or have expired due to a rulers death. The ten year truce is what slowed me down the most.

9. Once I created the kingdom of England I vassalalized all the remaining dukes in dejure England.

10. The duke of Northumbria owned 5 counties in the kingdom of Scotland including two of a usurpable duchy. Ursurped and pressed for an easy 6 counties. I only needed 3 more to usurp Scotland and get all its dejure claims.

11. Focused on Wales and then Ireland using the same tactics.

Couple random notes.

If an adventurer of your culture and religion declares war for a county near you help him out. After he wins offer him vassalization.

If a heresy manages to win a rebellion you need to be first to declare holy war. If another Catholic beats you it is an oppurtuntiy lost.

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

I am sure this can be done much faster but this is how I went from Duke of Essex to Emperor of Britannia in about 100 years without embracing a heresy.

Thanks for these notes. I disregard the stuff about tributaries because I think they come with the Horse Lords DLC, which I don't have.

The trouble with pursuing other people's claims is that they must either be your vassals, or of your dynasty, for you to benefit from it. Giving landed titles to immigrants is rather painful near the start of the game when you have few titles available, but I suppose it's usually possible.

So far I've always avoided revoking titles unless I have an excuse, but probably I should try being more ruthless about it.

 

[BD13]

I recommend you get Horse lords next CK2 sale. The tributary feature is very useful. They pay high taxes to you and provide their whole levy as an ally. Sort of like a tribal vassal.

I prefer to fabricate claims for the same reasons you pointed out. I like choosing my new vassal when the war is over. I only invite people in a pinch when I have no claims to push.

I always revoke baronies in my capital. The capital levy bonus is too good to not take advantage of. Plus the stacking effects of your marshal and steward.

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

I recommend you get Horse lords next CK2 sale.

Thanks, but I prefer not to complicate the game with a lot of DLCs. Currently I have only three of them and feel no urge to buy any of the others (not counting the cosmetic ones, which have no functional effect on the game).

 

[dolgion]

Wow, so there's some stuff I didn't know before. Only chancellors with diplomacy of 15 or above can fabricate duchy titles, huh. I didn't think of duchies with odd county numbers as specific targets. Good stuff.

I do not own Horse Lords so I was a bit confused when you talked about making tributaries. I'll probably pick it up in the future. Also the weak claimants vs female or otherwise disposed rulers is a good point. It makes sense. I guess my problem so far has been that I didn't have enough counties in my demesne to give out to prospective invite-claimants.

My current game is weird because Galicia and Asturias had taken over all of South England and parts of Wales, so I delayed outright conflict against them until I had taken care of the lesser realms in between. (I'm Jorvik). At this point though I've become powerful enough, and having usurped the title of King of England, I've now started the complete take-over of the Isles. Once I'm emperor of Britannia, I'm gonna look into turning heretic. That might be a great finale for this campaign, having started out as Pagan anyway.

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

Yes, I've been playing the game for a couple of years, on and off, but this thread has given me some new ideas, so thanks to the contributors, and to dolgion for starting it.

Perhaps the biggest change I've made immediately is to start revoking titles without an excuse when I feel the need. In the past I was scared of the opinion penalty, but in practice it's usually not a problem.

 

[szmik]

Thanks, but I prefer not to complicate the game with a lot of DLCs. Currently I have only three of them and feel no urge to buy any of the others (not counting the cosmetic ones, which have no functional effect on the game).

Most DLCs don't complicate the game, but give options (even if some of them are badly implemented).

 

[Jonathan Palfrey]

Most DLCs don't complicate the game, but give options (even if some of them are badly implemented).

It seems to me that a game with more options is a more complicated game; but this would be a silly thing to argue about. It's enough to say that I found a few of the DLCs marginally attractive and decided to buy them, but in most cases I'm just not interested in the added features. If I had to do without the ones I've bought, it wouldn't cause me much sorrow.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Thanks for the guidance, keep 'em coming!
So the most general tips I could easily implement are:

1. I shouldn't worry about vassal's opinion, sometimes having them revolt can be advantageous (revoking their title)
2. Instead of hoarding money for giving out gifts, it's better to spend it on developing my holding
3. Look for female rulers as a good way to inject claims into my dynasty, also marry off family members to people with claims
4. Retinues are important to maintain for military strength

I did look into getting a retinue, but right now (year ~1070) with military organisation at level 3 (I think), I'm able to have a retinue of around ~1000 troops. That's kind of low, isn't it? My vassals alone have a military of 8000, my own demesne gets me around 3000. Considering how maintaining the retinue eats into my monthly income, I thought it's not really that big an advantage. I'm usually more inclined to always keep money around to call upon mercenaries when things turn ugly. Or is it connected to my relatively underdeveloped holdings?

The point about not worrying about vassal opinion is pretty counter intuitive for me, so that's very interesting.

Holy wars sound great fun and all, but where I am (British Isles) there isn't much going on in the way of religious conflict. Or am I not thinking big enough? Is it worth starting wars overseas (in Iberian peninsula maybe)? The Umayyad's have basically conquered the whole of the peninsula at this point. Or should I consider Scandinavia?

1070, did you start at the 769 start? At tech level 3 a fully built out castle should net you 800-1200 depending on your martial stat. Also don't forget retinues get strength bonuses.

And you do pay attention to vassal opinion, but you try to isolate your enemies instead of trying to keep everyone happy... pick them off one by one if possible. If you built out your holdings, you have significantly more troops than any one Duke.

 

[dolgion]

1070, did you start at the 769 start? At tech level 3 a fully built out castle should net you 800-1200 depending on your martial stat. Also don't forget retinues get strength bonuses.

And you do pay attention to vassal opinion, but you try to isolate your enemies instead of trying to keep everyone happy... pick them off one by one if possible. If you built out your holdings, you have significantly more troops than any one Duke.

I started with the old gods bookmark. Tech-wise, military organisation is the first thing I upgrade (unless the ahead-penalty) is too large.