Trucks brigade

[Aelendil]

Hi all
I just noticed I could build a trucks brigade. Did I totally miss this from aod release or was it added in 1.07 ? Also is it what I think it is, the possibility to motorize a foot inf div ?

Thanks for your answers.

 

[Gazer75]

Sort of. The cost of adding a trucks is to high IMO.

		Softness	Hard	Soft	Air	 Def.	Tough.	Air Def.	Speed	Supply	Fuel	Manpower
39 Inf/mot	97		1	10	2	15	12	3		7	0.9	3.0	12
39 Mot		87		2	12	3	15	17	4		12	1.2	3.5	10

Note that very late in the game, if you got the resources, they are more even. The 1947 and on versions of Mot and Inf favor Inf in stats and you also get new trucks.
For the 51 the table has changed and Inf with trucks is better for all but speed, softness and unfortunately manpower. Mot will still be a harder target and have a +3 speed advantage.

Look in ...\db\units\brigades for the file b_u8.txt and you can see what the trucks add to the inf

 

[Aelendil]

Hmm, thanks for the answer. Speed seems a bit low to me with this brigade.

 

[Gazer75]

Later in game, with 47 trucks, the speed of Inf with trucks is 10

 

[Aelendil]

Thanks again Gazer75.

 

[Gazer75]

Think that reducing fuel by 0.5, manpower by 1, and +1 speed, Trucks might be more interesting to use.
You have to research Motorized anyway to get the trucks so why not use them as they are better.

 

[unmerged(236565)]

They are in since AoD release I think. I mainly use them as SOV in 1936 campaign. SOV has MOT researched from the beginning so can start building them right away. Such INF with trucks are useful in difficult terrain such as the swamps and forests in the north. They dont suffer any penalty from wheeled movement like MOT does. Also they have better stats then MOT I and II if you use INF 39 and 41. They can also be useful to italy fighting in africa - italy cant affort MOT and those are bad in 30% infra regions - INF with trucks is great there.
Still in the end they are not all that useful - I keep about 20 or so divs as SOV with this brig to support the tanks - holding ground they have taken.

 

[Happy Tyrant]

The biggest negative against them is that they prevent you from using a combat brigade, like ART or AT.

 

[lazarus.plus]

There is one fantastic use I've seen, which is to make infantry units into fast moving hole-pluggers. They can rapidly (compared to ordinary infantry) move to where they are needed and are very good at defence, as everyone is aware. Otherwise, for offensive purposes MOT or MEC is obviously a better choice.

 

[Mjarr]

Such INF with trucks are useful in difficult terrain such as the swamps and forests in the north. They dont suffer any penalty from wheeled movement like MOT does. Also they have better stats then MOT I and II if you use INF 39 and 41. They can also be useful to italy fighting in africa - italy cant affort MOT and those are bad in 30% infra regions - INF with trucks is great there.

Since the speed bonus for inf with trucks is very minimal the impact is pretty much practically speaking only diffrence between 3.x vs 4.x speed under basic circumstances when comparing to MOT or MEC in swamp. In forests MOT and MEC moves faster than INF with trucks.

The biggest negative against them is that they prevent you from using a combat brigade, like ART or AT.

That's one reason why I added motorisation\mechanisation brigades some minor additional stats so they are somewhat equal to standard unbrigaded MOT\MEC stat-wise (including softness) and speed bonus also upped to closeish levels.

 

[unmerged(236565)]

I am unable to provide any solid numbers on this to prove my point of view but from experience I can say this:
It is true what you say about the difference in speed in forests MOT vs Truck brig INF in general. But since MOT uses wheels they are at a disadvantage in low Infra regions. I had a revelation when I used them as SOV in Persia and the middle east - desert and mountains are much faster overcome then with MOT (that is my impression) in that sence maybe they are even useful for japan in china as an alternative to CAV. They need more research however to be available so maybe that is a problem.

 

[Mjarr]

AFAIK infastructure has no (severe?) impact on unit speed or combat performance, unless it's one of those undocumented changes in AoD that are very difficult to spot.

 

[Amallric]

Bah ESE no?

 

[Amallric]

And wait? You said infrastructure has no effect on speed? What has, then?

 

[Mjarr]

Maybe it's worth running some tests over it to see how much infrastructure has an effect overall? My main point was that generally speaking the effect is somewhat difficult to notice under most common circumstances, unless you're moving some MOT\MEC\ARM or so through a low infastructure jungle in poor weather.

ESE is mostly long term resupply problem, since just for the sake of single battle you can fight at 10% infastructure with no (real) supply problems as long as the division stockpiles remain up unless -- as I said earlier -- there is some hidden modifier involved that is not shown at all. Needless to say after prolonged fighting they tend to run on empty.

 

[Amallric]

Wow. I have a completely different vision of the game mechanics than you. For me, infrastructure has alongside with terrain, a drastic effect on the unit speed. Something you'd notice immediately when moving units. And ESE has a direct effect on combat, resulting in bonus/penalty equivalent to the ESE level.

 

[Gazer75]

ESE will impact combat. IIRC there is a penalty for low ESE. Look in the combat screen during a fight to see the penalties and you'll see...
Running out of supply for a division has a separate penalty.

Infra DO impact on movement speed up to 100 AFAIK. Above that it will only help resources and IC

Ive used some INF with trucks to keep up with fast moving ARM after a breakthrough to encircle the enemy. They are nice for securing and defending captured provinces.
And as some have pointed out the movement penalties for MOT is pretty severe in some terrain.

Attached is the difference between INF and MOT. This is taken from the modifiers.csv and I have removed the lines that are the same.

 

[Mjarr]

Thanks Gazer for clarifying that infra part and I stand out corrected in this case, but how come I have a feeling that what you refer as ESE is basically what I refer as division's remaining stockpile(s) and ESE as the resupply rate of the stockpiles meaning we've been meaning the same thing with diffrent terms?

 

[Gazer75]

Might be
ESE affects how fast the divisions stockpile fills up. If you are advancing really fast you outrun the supply and the stockpile goes down.
Even if you have a full stockpile of supplies the infra and ESE of the province your division is in will affect combat.
Its IMO the major reason you have to slow down. Divisions can get some nasty supply penalties if you advance to fast.
Not a big deal as long as you don't face any resistance, but if you do you might end up having to turn tail and retreat.
This issue is very pronounced in Barbarossa. You have to advance very far in to Russia to trigger the peace, which is stretching your supply lines pretty thin.

Getting a bit off topic though, but what I find strange is the reduction of infra when capturing a province without combat.
Why would the roads get destroyed when the army is not doing any damage to it?
IMO the reduction should be reduced if there was no combat.

 

[unmerged(236565)]

2nd that - reduced infra destruction if there was no combat during capture of a region.
But I guess it is impossible. This effect is based on and triggerd by the province changing hands. I see no way to include combat or not combat into this equasion in the game engine. Correct me if I am wrong.
You could simply try to imagine that the local population will hinder the progress of your units by doing damage to bridges, roads and railway tracks since you are an enemy. Works ok during barbarossa and china but less so when you move through france with the US Army. In this case it could simply be that your soldiers are unfamilliar with the terrain and they can not use all available means of transportation openly because they are still near an enemy front line (so no keeping the soldiers in the trucks but rather advance with caution and scouting ahead). These cirumstances could be reflected ingame by reduced infra. The repair costs to bring infra up to normal could mean the stetting up of roadsigns, making and distributing maps, setting up checkpoints, making roads and bridges fit for your vehicles and closing roads for all but your troops. That takes time and resources.