Truces and alliances - how do they work?

[oblio-]

If I have a truce with a country from a previous war, will they answer a "Call to arms" from a country I attack?

Example:
I, Wallachia attacked a HRE member and Austria joined the defense. All of Austria's allies also joined, including Russia. I peaced out ASAP as I cannot fight Russia, so I got a truce with them.
Now, if I attack Poland, Russia's ally, will Russia help them?

Please say no, it's my best opportunity to get Moldavia from Poland

 

[Xara]

The AI won't break a truce unless they are part of a coalition that you are attacking

 

[unmerged(587881)]

if I attack Poland, Russia's ally, will Russia help them?

Yes, she will.

 

[unmerged(465279)]

wrong thread

 

[oblio-]

The AI won't break a truce unless they are part of a coalition that you are attacking

No coalition, just a regular alliance.

Yes, she will.

This is contradictory to the post above

 

[Xara]

If you have a truce with Russia they will not defend Poland.

Believe me, I have used false wars and enforce peace to ensure that a target with powerful alliances is left alone.

 

[TheBloke]

If you have a truce with Russia they will not defend Poland.

Believe me, I have used false wars and enforce peace to ensure that a target with powerful alliances is left alone.

They also get a dishonoured alliance call and thus trashed relations with their erstwhile partners. So they can't so easily reform the alliance, unlike forcing the ending of an alliance in a peace treaty.

This is doubly nice when you recently fought the HRE emperor and have a truce, then you Dow an elector and they try to call in Austria to protect the HRE. But they can't, and so that elector now dislikes the emperor and won't vote for them any more. Combine this with having some vassalised electors of your own and you can ensure you're in a position to be elected even if you only have three votes.

 

[Xara]

They also get a dishonoured alliance call and thus trashed relations with their erstwhile partners.

No, they don't, not while a truce is in effect, because they won't be called to war. You can inspect a nation via diplomacy and see what CBs they have. A nation would have to be truly desperate to CTW someone they know has a truce in place, because that nation simply won't answer it. I see it ONLY when NO truce is in effect, but the ally nation is in dire straits re: manpower, debt, revolts, or other wars.

 

[TheBloke]

No, they don't, not while a truce is in effect, because they won't be called to war. You can inspect a nation via diplomacy and see what CBs they have. A nation would have to be truly desperate to CTW someone they know has a truce in place, because that nation simply won't answer it. I see it ONLY when NO truce is in effect, but the ally nation is in dire straits re: manpower, debt, revolts, or other wars.

Oh, ok.. hmm, this must be unique to the HRE call then?

I've definitely trashed relations DOWing an HRE Elector when the Emperor could not answer. In a couple of cases the Emperor was also that HRE nation's ally, and I documented a larger relation hits than for Electors who did not have the alliance as well.

I suppose the difference must be that the Emperor is called in automatically for HRE wars, and so he does get Dishonoured Calls. But as you say, there's no auto call for normal alliances wars.

I'll test it more thoroughly tomorrow, and look at the diplomacy screens in that scenario to confirm there is indeed a general Alliance Dishonoured call being applied, and not maybe some HRE-specific dishonoured modifier.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

No, they don't, not while a truce is in effect, because they won't be called to war. You can inspect a nation via diplomacy and see what CBs they have. A nation would have to be truly desperate to CTW someone they know has a truce in place, because that nation simply won't answer it. I see it ONLY when NO truce is in effect, but the ally nation is in dire straits re: manpower, debt, revolts, or other wars.

Defensive CtA's are sent automatically, to all your alliances. So they don't have a choice in the matter, and definitely do trash said alliance.

 

[Xara]

Defensive CtA's are sent automatically, to all your alliances. So they don't have a choice in the matter, and definitely do trash said alliance.

That's simply not true of the AI, and I encourage you to double-check.

 

[oblio-]

That initial attempt failed due to Poland having an alliance with France. So I had to peace out quickly

But now there's a great opportunity - they are not allied with France or Russia anymore and their only other powerful ally will be under truce with me for 2 more year when the war starts. So it will be the best time to go into action

Thanks!

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

That's simply not true of the AI, and I encourage you to double-check.

Ok, I started a game as Ottomans, tag switched to Aq Qoyunlu and Candar to prevent them from doing anything themselves, and had Aq Qoyunlu attack the Ottomans. Immediately white peaced to get my truce.

Then I set up an alliance between Candar and Aq Qoyunlu. Attacked Candar with the Ottomans and saw if the CtA would arrive at Aq Qoyunlu. And it did! Both with reconquest and no CB.

I never unpaused (and tagswitched beforehand), so the ai was completely incapable of doing anything there. Clearly the CtA is automatic, even when there's a truce in place.

If you have tests that show otherwise, please share them.

 

[TheBloke]

And the AI nations got the dishonoured alliance relations penalty? Great stuff!

 

[TheBloke]

And the AI nations got the dishonoured alliance relations penalty? Great stuff!

Yup. I knew I'd seen it! I'll never doubt myself again

Enforced Peace on Venice and was fighting only Venice. After the war, I checked their allies, and DOW'd a random one - Netherlands.

Before

After

A drop in relations of 215? Don't mind if you do! Have fun re-creating that alliance, with only 29 more Improve Relations available.