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Stahlwolf

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Just forced the US surrender... makes sense with the Canadian surrender to change sides by being puppeted, but to have the same option for the US? That's way too much. To simply get confederated states as a puppet with 1000 IC+ seems ludicrous. There should only be the option to make a white peace (with the Nazis keeping everything they have conquered outside of actual US soil) at a point of having lost a single region of US soil and when around 66% of the country have been conquered, there should be the option for complete surrender with the only logical choice of partitioning the whole thing. Germany with 700-1000 IC controlling a nation that has even more IC doesn't seem plausible, they would most likely try to break up the union and nurture antagonism between the individual state entities of America. Divide and rule, so to speak.
 

iceagecoming

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Hm. This "central army" story sounds interesting.
Our problem is the fact that we are lacking of information about the chinese army (divisions, TOE of the divisions, formations, what happend with US stuff, ect pp). Like i said we are open for ideas and i think we will discuss your suggestions in team. To be sure; You are not able to defeat Japan? Because in the past players said that it was too easy to defeat Japan in TRP with China.

Edit: I dont think we will add more IC to China basing on the fact that this would cause too much problems when China AI will be able to defend it against Japan.

Edit 2: China get light Infantry by the german events. So this "light infantry divisions" represent the trained formations by the german officers.


Aw...now in 1942 I can barely defend the southern western part and Guangdong province, even I've joined the alliance and british armies are helping me (CHC is too weak btw I had to send more than 20 divisions to help them). maybe im too underskilled.. I should check past AARs to learn something XD

For the central army, the 5th army (mechanized 200th division and 96th division),new formed 6th army(Liao Yaoxiang, 22th, 14th, 50th divisions), 1st honored division (Zheng Dongguo), new formed 1st army (Sun Liren, 38th, 30th divisions), the 74th army (Wang Yaowu, 51st, 57th, 58th divisions), the 54th army (Cheng Chen, 11st, 118th, 198 divisions). These are the major central armies formed in the China-Japan war period, let alone those formed in the civil war time and the difference of "Descendant army" and the "Collateral army".

If you developers need more information about CHI military system it's my honor to help.
 

Vlad_Dracul1989

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Just forced the US surrender... makes sense with the Canadian surrender to change sides by being puppeted, but to have the same option for the US? That's way too much. To simply get confederated states as a puppet with 1000 IC+ seems ludicrous. There should only be the option to make a white peace (with the Nazis keeping everything they have conquered outside of actual US soil) at a point of having lost a single region of US soil and when around 66% of the country have been conquered, there should be the option for complete surrender with the only logical choice of partitioning the whole thing. Germany with 700-1000 IC controlling a nation that has even more IC doesn't seem plausible, they would most likely try to break up the union and nurture antagonism between the individual state entities of America. Divide and rule, so to speak.

Balkanization really makes more sense there. Independent CSA, Californian Republic, Republic of Texas, New England and rump United States (with different name and this one being perhaps the only German puppet...with California being Japanese puppet :p )
 

Stahlwolf

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Is it intended that the Serbian puppet regime has no cores on its own lands and constantly has to be pacified by my troops since the Serbian's own troops don't ever move from their positions?
 

DerStudti

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British surrender: As stated before, there's an error in the initial trigger event for the dissolution of the British Empire, always requiring to get ENG down to below 5 VP, which is nearly equivalent to total occupation. My intention was to allow for a british surrender if its mainland and colonial keypoints are lost, thus balking any hopes for salvation by the USA or even SOV. Call it the highest plausible stakes from a historical point of view. But as Rommel already mentioned, we also have to take the gaming perspective into account. One shall simply not be able to take out all of the Western Allies in another Blitzkrieg in 1940 (= taking the British Isles + sinking the Home Fleet), thereby eliminating any possible threat (+ several events...) and being able to care about an isolated SOV. Yeah, it is possible against the AI, and it's even a rather easy job if you go for that plan from the very beginning, but please keep in mind what i already wrote two pages ago:

On the other hand, naval AI in general is rather inaccessible. Aside from defining high priority seazones, there's not much one could do to improve either fleet composition or mission selection. AFAIK, even the AI settings for fleet type numbers are ignored and replaced by hardcoded values for each nation. That's why the overwhelming allied naval superiority in numbers doesn't translate into results on the battlefield. Their fleets are numerous, but way too small, and so they are defeated easily. Moreover, there seems to be no preference for escorting transport ships or for covering invasions.
All in all, the Allies terribly suffer from this AI weakness, especially against human players. One well-balanced human fleet + several dock time replacement ships will (over time) be able to deal with a ridiculous amount of enemy ships.
We're hoping for future versions of DH to improve AI behavior and modability.

Under human control, the Royal Navy would prevent an invasion with ease, even against 200 subs. That's the situation in MP games and that's what we're balancing the unit values on. We could impose terrible sanctions on a human player here or add even more coastal garrisons for the british AI to make up for the deficiencies in AI fleet management, but that's something nobody would really enjoy. We rather hope for future options to improve AI behavior so that even thinking about an early Sealion would seem as ludicrous as it did back then in 1940.


US surrender
: There already is a distinction in the surrender event. You have to control US territory to unlock the option for setting up a puppet state. If you just drop nuclear bombs from far away, you may just take their colonies and make peace. I agree that partitioning the country and setting up a military administration would have been a more viable and plausible option, but that's where i decided in favor of the gaming perspective: As soon as you've reached US surrender in-game, there most likely isn't anything left to do anymore and the game is over. ENG, FRA, SOV, USA, most british minors...all of them are occupied, partitioned or even allied.
I prefered to reward the player and tell him "OK, it's over, you're king of the world!" by giving him this precious prey over setting up another story about US partitioning to deal with possible uprisings and stuff.


Serbia: a) claims instead of national provinces - intended b) stationary units - not intended, maybe an AI issue or just stemming from the fact that the serbian AI prefers garrison builds
 
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Vlad_Dracul1989

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There is another way. Just put there harsh limits I saw in another mods for every major state - only so much BBs, so much panzers, fighters, subs etc. until some year, which would be changed only by war and everything above limits would simply dissapeared or pretty everyone around would attacked me.

Nothing new for you folks, I know. Just make it much more enforced, and not only for Navy, but some reasonable limitations to Army and Air Force too.

This wouldn't allowed, for example my Germany, to prepare 4 years for Sealion with so many specialized units, specifically built to quickly defeat British.

'Cause to be fair in British case, I think they would really reacted differently, if Fuehrer said 'F*ck with Plan Z', scrapped expensive BB projects and built purely submarine or Kreuzerkrieg fleet, not mentioning whole army group of paratroopers with hundreds of Junkerses.
 
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Lord Rommel

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There is another way. Just put there harsh limits I saw in another mods for every major state - only so much BBs, so much panzers, fighters, subs etc. until some year, which would be changed only by war and everything above limits would simply dissapeared or pretty everyone around would attacked me.

Nothing new for you folks, I know. Just make it much more enforced, and not only for Navy, but some reasonable limitations to Army and Air Force too.

This wouldn't allowed, for example my Germany, to prepare 4 years for Sealion with so many specialized units, specifically built to quickly defeat British.

'Cause to be fair in British case, I think they would really reacted differently, if Fuehrer said 'F*ck with Plan Z', scrapped expensive BB projects and built purely submarine or Kreuzerkrieg fleet, not mentioning whole army group of paratroopers with hundreds of Junkerses.
Sounds like the old NFM mechanics. But nope. Such a system would be a nightmare for a multiplayer game and singleplayer. With such a system we could inform the user by event to build an exactly defined army to play the game. Sounds boring to me. And on the other side supply cost and fuel usage should limit your "mechanized armies". Perhaps this system dont work in 1940 because your divisions arent as developed and updated like in 1942-1943. In MP games supply is a crucial problem for all large armies.

Summer of 1937 should be the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War.
It should start in summer 1937. Perhaps your AI decided to ignore the Marco Polo incident. There is a 1% chance that the AI wont start the war against China.
 

Vlad_Dracul1989

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With such a system we could inform the user by event to build an exactly defined army to play the game. Sounds boring to me.

It doesn't have to be SO harsh. After all, Germany itself is allowed to directly build Panzer divisions from 1939, and there are naval treaties, so it wouldn't be much above now-existing limitations.

You would just add few things to avoid extremes, that's all. Like Germany popping dozens of submarines or USSR/China too resembling Ork horde/Tyranid swarm (which seems like unstopping headache for TRP team).
 

Lord Rommel

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Well. Like Studti said; your 200+ submarines would be sweet in a human mp game. The fact is that the naval AI cant handle "perfect combinded" fleets. The AI has no idea about a sub hunter naval group. With an enforced naval AI HoI would be much more difficult. But at the moment it is easy to stamp down the AI by mass of submarines.

Small question for Vlad:
When you are preparing your army for the naval invasion of England what is your experience with the russian campaign?
 
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Vlad_Dracul1989

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Small question for Vlad:
When you are preparing your army for the naval invasion of England what is your experience with the russian campaign?

Well, I ended playing in moment I redeployed 95% of my army to the East. I tried to make it before 1st June 1941, just to be sure. British are so much crushed, that Italians will conquer Egypt alone, anyway, and I didn't pushed Yugoslavia into Pact of Steel. As long as Serbs and Greeks playing nice, I don't want another distraction.
It's bad enough for precious time I was forced to deal with Republican Spain and Gibraltar after Britain, just to be sure there won't be any unpleasant surprise later.

It can be a long and bloody job against Russkies, as usual, so I prepared some reserve army group to be send to now vulnerable middle east to secure oil for panzers (and possibly attack Caucasus), if Italians were same incompetent as in real history.

I am also building nuclear reactors already.
 

Bread8756

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Hi there. I was wondering if maybe someone could post an alternate download link(perhaps Mediafire or something) for the mod? My internet isn't exactly of the highest quality(being at a uni and all) and so the DL doesn't want to cooperate. I would really appreciate it!
 

caksz

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Hi there. I was wondering if maybe someone could post an alternate download link(perhaps Mediafire or something) for the mod? My internet isn't exactly of the highest quality(being at a uni and all) and so the DL doesn't want to cooperate. I would really appreciate it!

check 2nd post there is alternative download with mediafire
 

MacGowan

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Hi, i'm new to this board, so this might sound very naive of me. In that case my apologise.
we also have to take the gaming perspective into account.
Why? Isn't this supposed to be TOTAL REALISM? The inert problem of fighting the AI (save the fact that it's just an algorithm) is that it doesn't know how OTL plays out. If you were to design a game that's supposed to be total realism, then you as any nation starting in 1939 would have an enormous advantage as you know how things play out.

Germany destroying the Homefleet and successfully invading the British Isle would most likely bring forth a revolution in Britian before London is captured. That's realism. Moving away from that for gameplay purposes. Well then why call this project Total Realism? I as a DH player would love to play TRP for the Realism that DH might lack. not the "better gameplay"
 

DerStudti

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@MacGowan:


I wouldn't call your question naive, but rather a bit out of place. After all, this is just a game that's primarily supposed to be somewhat motivational for the players...and you don't achieve this result by streamlining every aspect according to what happened in reality. We refer to "realism" as our goal in portraying the initial setup for 1936 and as many challenges as possible that follow. Results for ahistorical events shall both be plausible and not interfere too much with the rest of the game so that you're still able to enjoy the match on another theatre.

Germany destroying the Homefleet and successfully invading the British Isle would most likely bring forth a revolution in Britian before London is captured. That's realism.

No, that's just a theory. Your theory, to be exact, because it never really happened and you just made up your mind about it. Which we also did, but ended up with another result that also matched our gameplay goals.


BTW: It was our predecessors who once chose that name back in 2005 when the mod was started for HoI1. We took over the project after about 2009 and except for one member, it's two completely different teams. So our philosophy might also differ considerably from the original one.
 

Lord Rommel

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[...]
Germany destroying the Homefleet and successfully invading the British Isle would most likely bring forth a revolution in Britian before London is captured. That's realism. [...]
Do you have any proof for your theory?
Well then why call this project Total Realism?
To be honest; thats the name we succeeded by a generation of modder who have left the project before we joined in. We havent changed the titel to keep the tradition and the name of the project but we have reworked and redone a lot of stuff basing on our version and vision of "TRP". And our point of view is a mix of realism and gameplay focus. Realism is nice and adds flavour but it is stupide, useless and dangerous when the gameplay is broken und not playable.
 

Whatever\

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So I defeated all the Chinese as Kwantung(annexed them), there wasn't any surrender event for me or Japan. What to do now? I'm supposed to release China-Nanjing manually or wait for some event or dont release anything?
 

MacGowan

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I wouldn't call your question naive, but rather a bit out of place
Then I do apologise, I was jumping in as a potential player who was just looking on from the sidelines and throwing in my 5 cents.
that's just a theory. Your theory, to be exact, because it never really happened
Also a very fair point. I am not a historian, and at this point all of these "what if's" are just guesses. I for instance would have said a Coup d'état would have happened in Nazi-Germany with the Russians closing in, and as we both know that never happened.
It was our predecessors who once chose that name back in 2005 when the mod was started for HoI1. We took over the project after about 2009 and except for one member, it's two completely different teams. So our philosophy might also differ considerably from the original one.
thats the name we succeeded by a generation of modder who have left the project before we joined in.
Understood, well that explains a lot. I might be way out of line, but as a person who had worked in advertisement for a number of years, and as an outside perspective to this whole project (but one who has played his fair share of HoI games) may I say that the name is very misleading. You have a name that has notoriety within the community, I can understand that, but the name does "promise" the new player an uncompromising realistic modification to the HoI game, the Europa engine. That was the game I was looking for.

I do not mean to "pi** on anyones parade", merely offer some advice that might help in some way.
I also apologise for this being out of place.

Good luck :)
 
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